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On the drive up north for an appt. this morning I was thinking about knowledge and all the things we built with it - the vast concrete corridors that crisscross the nation I live in - the technologically amazing vehicles that navigate them, the alloys they are composed of, we've come a long way from Babylon, itself a far cry from the caves we painted. None of what follows is intended to minimize all of the considerable good that we have achieved.
And yet I look around at some of the hell that followed it, like nuclear bombs, massive pollution, and overpopulation. And since I'm posting this on the Internet it's only fair I address the medium: Right now we're staring down the business end of some bad choices we've made collectively with respect to privacy and with respect to national discourse (in the UK and the US at least that I've noticed) if not caused by the Internet then exacerbated by it.
And all of this makes me wonder if knowledge by itself is sufficient to continue human advancement. What about wisdom? I think we need it in conjunction with knowledge to achieve understanding. Just because we can do things doesn't necessarily mean we should. Just because we have the technology doesn't mean we won't harm ourselves with it, and the more powerful it is, the more damage it can do.
How do we move forward wisely? The more we advance in knowledge and the technology that follows, the more we need that wisdom, and looking around lately I feel like it's sorely lacking. It feels like the west is losing the plot, and the tech feels like part of why.
Knowledge is not a neutral thing. Nor is it necessarily all good. It is a complicated, useful and dangerous thing to have, all depending on how you employ it, which I think is where wisdom comes in. Are we getting more wise, or just more knowledgeable?
Real programmers use butterflies
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honey the codewitch wrote: of some bad choices we've made collectively
We didn't make those choices collectively; the world is not a family, but competing individuals divided in groups. If our group doesn't take advantage (even if it costs the global community), some other group will. That's why we're a tax-haven and some companies can cut deals with our tax man.
honey the codewitch wrote: Just because we have the technology doesn't mean we won't harm ourselves with it, and the more powerful it is, the more damage it can do.
Goood. I want a bigger stick to hit than my neighbours have, and I want my nation to have bigger sticks than the neighbouring nations.
honey the codewitch wrote: Are we getting more wise, or just more knowledgeable?
We are, in essence, competing apes. Technological advanced apes, yes, but I still wouldn't accept the Austrialians to rule our country with all their wisdom.
We won't change our ways until we are forced, and we will resist any change. Global cooperation requires a global dictatorship, and that would favor their local powerbase over other individuals. So no, I don't see any chance for collective decisions based on wisdom.
..and don't even bring up the idea we could trust scientists 
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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I think it's an interesting question. One that has been shared by many thinker before.
Often though, they make the mistake to think there is something out there that already has the wisdom and we are ignoring it. I beg to differ, we came here by chance, emerging from the mud and without direction. The path ahead hasn't been crossed by anyone yet, necessary wisdom is yet to be found, or more precisely, invented.
The good news is that we are aware of our imperfection. At least some of us are.
I don't have any other opinion to share at this time....
modified 7-Feb-20 6:01am.
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Super Lloyd wrote: emerging from the mud
Speak for yourself.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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honey the codewitch wrote: human advancement
Brings me to the question - "Why human advancement at all?*". Is it that happiness is directly proportional to human advancement?
On the other hand, I feel that happiness increases as the number of wants decreases. The lesser I possess, the happier I am. May sound philosophical, but such an idea works for me. Maybe age has taught this lesson - my age is 54.
*Yes, advancement in medicine is needed, to find remedies for modern day diseases. However, it looks like with the advancement in medicine, the types and complexity of diseases are also advancing - almost like the newer diseases are stubbornly saying "I will see how you cure me".
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honey the codewitch wrote: Are we getting more wise, or just more knowledgeable?
Neither, we just have easier access to more knowledge than before.
Consider:
- all knowledge once lived in peoples heads, discovered by accident / trial "what happens if I eat these berries"
- then they drew/wrote it down because people forget "was it the red or the blue ones that killed my first wife",
- then those writings were shared.. Don't eat the yellow ones - unless....
throw in a few more years of sharing, also introduce
- copying: started by hand ... now electronic,
- travel: started as walking .. air planes (space travel not so useful for this purpose yet)
- knowledge repositories: village book .. libraries .. internet.
Yes, new knowledge is being added, as the trial (experimentation) method has itself benefited from the above. (long ago they knew and shared shaped glass made small things look bigger, some guy invented the microscope, shared the idea, other people improved them and shared and ...)
last time we only saw dinosaurs chasing us around, now we can see atoms (and figured how to throw the ones that go "bang!" at them pesky dinosaurs).
Knowledge: We don't have more as individuals, just access to more.
i.e. People weren't stupider lets say 2000 years ago, they just had less recorded knowledge from others to refer too.
BTW: Consider that carefully with regard to what they DID write at the time.
Wisdom: is just application of knowledge, having access to more of the latter makes the former appear better.
doctors, rocket scientists ... even consider last time cooks had to guess/or try what happens when they found a new color berry, now they can look it up and less people accidentally die, unless...
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And all that connected knowledge and wisdom has led us to.....
Facebook! Twitter! The Lounge!
Yaaay!
I, for one, like Roman Numerals.
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the goat in your machine wrote: even consider last time cooks had to guess/or try what happens when they found a new color berry, now they can look it up and less people accidentally die, unless...
They didn't gamble with their lives like that.
You find a new berry (or mushroom, leaf or root), you crush it and put it on your skin (arm, leg). If nothing happens within a day, you do the same with your lips. Still nothing happens, you keep a tiny bit in your mouth. If that doesn't cause a reaction, than maybe it is edible.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Excellent reply! 
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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We need more love and awareness - wisdom and knowledge are laughable in the human context.
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Yes, knowledge IS indeed neutral.
Using your knowledge without understanding all the consequences, is a whole different thing.
Or using your knowledge while understanding the bad consequences...
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I guess that's a perspective thing. I wouldn't consider a gun a neutral thing either.
Real programmers use butterflies
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I do.
It's the users that the problem.
And they mustn't remain unchecked.
And that's all I'm saying on that subject. Or we will slide quickly into soapbox territory.
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fair enough. i understand your position. the reason mine is different is purely based on the potential danger of said thing. I factor that into my assessment while you consider it a separate issue.
We can agree to disagree. 
Real programmers use butterflies
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Crap, now I'm breaking my own promise, but this is from a strictly theoretical point of view from my first response.
The gun itself is a tool, and the user needs to consider the consequences of his/her usage.
The constructor and lawmakers has a completely different responsibility in predicting how the tool might or will be used.
There are a lot of laws I consider stupid and that they shouldn't need to exist, but I also realize that people are assholes...
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All I'm saying is I account for the accidental discharges of said firearm in terms of it's neutrality. I don't think a car is neutral. I don't think anything that grants power to an individual is neutral since by default it instills the user with additional responsibility. Just where I sit. Your position is understandable even if we don't agree. Just clarifying where I'm coming from.
Real programmers use butterflies
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Not meaning to trivialise your post at all, but it reminded me of what Mary from Conoga Park said.
Quote: Information is not knowledge.
Knowledge is not wisdom.
Wisdom is not truth.
Truth is not beauty.
Beauty is not love.
Love is not music.
Music is THE BEST.
"Rock journalism is people who can't write interviewing people who can't talk for people who can't read." Frank Zappa 1980
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I like that.
Real programmers use butterflies
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This is why I still enjoy reading the classics and good literature.
Sometimes wisdom can only be communicated through metaphor and analogy rather than simply through instant access to huge volumes of information.
Aesop's fables, fairy tales and ancient Greek and Roman literature(originally songs and poems), even the Bible if you are that way inclined, do a pretty good job of cautioning against the belief that knowledge or technical mastery is enough to lead a good life.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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Knowledge has always been in close relationship with Technology. Wisdom is always a close follow up. You cannot have a wisdom without knowing what's the potential of that knowledge. so wisdom is always a shadow of the knowledge.
Most importantly, knowledge is always a neutral thing. Wisdom comes after how the users use/misuse the knowledge.
Consider the knowledge of making fire. Wisdom came a step later realizing how it can destruction or make food more hygienic/tasty. This knowledge which led to advancement happened because of the majoritian wisdom about it.
If that time cavemen decided to play with fire and start burning everything for fun, then world perhaps would have ended.
cheers,
Super
------------------------------------------
Too much of good is bad,mix some evil in it
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Jorgen and I just had this argument, so I refer you to that thread.
Real programmers use butterflies
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I think the word you're looking for is "honour".
It's almost vanished completely.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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i mean maybe that too? but i was talking about wisdom
Real programmers use butterflies
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