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If ever you want to eat mass-market pizza again then don't look up analog (or analogue) cheese. It's one of my brother-in-laws main markets. He manages tens of thousands of hectares of palm oil plantations, and is also a consultant in that field. Unfortunately, there are no cows in that field. He knows nothing about cows in his business, nothing at all.
You can see where this is going, can't you. 
Your average shop bought pizza knows less about cows than my brother-in-law.
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Palm oil! 
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'Fraid so - a large amount of it, anyway.
It is an interesting exercise in your local supermarket to look at weasel-wording on a frozen pizza box to see how they suggest it may be something vaguely like cheese, but actually isn't. Interesting, but not necessarily edifying.
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Look at the junk they gave them - an experiment designed to fail and make their video.
I've been to Italy a number of times - staying for weeks, in one case. Their food was not particularly tasty by any measure. Their idea of pizza (real pizza - everything's an extra topping on flattish bread) is pathetic. Be it Resturante or Trattoria, nothing impressive was the general rule
But look what they served them. A "Meatlover's" piece of crap from an nauseating chain store. I must presume the rest of the food was equally hand-picked to displease. The guy was right - I wouldn't feed that stuff to a dog, either. But it's not pizza - just a round thing shat out of a flow-through oven. I will gladly enjoy my NYC version: heaven's sauce-and-cheese anointed blessing. Food for the people!
Just your typical Euro-Arrogance about food. Wherever you go you can find sh*t-on-a-shingle. Only fools that desperately want to believe it proves anything.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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The exception proves the rule.
I had good Italian in the US, once.
I had good Italian in Italy, many times.
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Munchies_Matt wrote: The exception proves the rule.
This statement, although used often enough, is absolutely nonsensical. Its use should be criminalized.
As for your experience - based upon where you live - why am I not surprised?
The point is, wherever you go you find amazingly good place to eat - and lots of other ones.
I look for juicy and savory as primary attributes of Italian cooking.
Seasoned tomato sauce and mozzarella cheese, melted together, will make nearly anything delicious.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos wrote: Seasoned tomato sauce and mozzarella cheese
Unless the tomato and mozzarella is from the US.
I got s jar of anchovies from italy a few months back, a big jar, about 700 grams (2lbs). Even THEY were better than any other anchovy I have ever had.
If you can't get the ingredients, you can't make the food!
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Munchies_Matt wrote: Unless the tomato and mozzarella is from the US.
Your being in a country that eats elephanting snails - you apparently wouldn't know good food if you even actually ate it. Only the label matters to you. Like that dying language they belched by the striking baguette wavers. A logo instead of a life; Form without substance? Perhaps.
As I said - pathetic Euro Arrogance. Swooning in their own mystique from a past long gone. Desperately pointing to a history they really had no part in - as it's history. If there were great ones . . . they're long dead.
Another round of this? No. To tiresome.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos wrote: Your being in a country that eats elephanting snails
You live in a country that eats insects.
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That remark made my day!
Cheers!
"I had the right to remain silent, but I didn't have the ability!"
Ron White, Comedian
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I didn't know till i saw some dried grubs in a supermarket in CA once.
Odd, is it a Mexican speciality? They were with the dried chillies.
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Drown anything in garlic and butter and it tastes good 
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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Munchies_Matt wrote: I had good Italian in the US, once.
I had good Italian in Italy, many times.
I had good Italian in Canada, several times. Her name was Rita.
I'm retired. There's a nap for that...
- Harvey
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It really depends on what you eat, I mean proper "Bagna cauda" is astonishingly tasty, as much of the spicy dishes from the southern Italy, and cheeses like Gorgonzola, Taleggio and Casu Marzu are not for the faint of heart.
But yes, on average Italian food is less tasty than what other countries usually eat. English, American and Indian food is generally much more intense - if I have to do a comparison I would equate Italian "level of tastiness" to Japanese food. Normally it is made of simple ingredients, not too many sauces and spices, easy cooking.
Pizza IS anything goes upon flattish bread.
In italy we eat snails too by the way, up in the north. If properly cooked they are exquisite, but I don't like the consistence.
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF
* GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
* Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game.
* I'm a puny punmaker.
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Ah, but the roast meats of northern italy! Hmmmmm.....
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The most tasteless meat that could ever be conceived, the boiled meat, becomes something utterly different when ate with fruit mustard (the one and only mustard made of f***ing spicy fruit under syrup) or "salsa cogna" (a mix of apple, pears, grapes and other fruit sauce).
And the tartares of raw calf meat, briefly marinated in lemon and garlick instead of being cooked...
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF
* GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
* Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game.
* I'm a puny punmaker.
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Stop it, I havent had lunch yet! 
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den2k88 wrote: Pizza IS anything goes upon flattish bread.
Yeah - I know.
The difference between what I visualize as pizza, and most other forms of it, are that the "NYC" pizza isn't actually baked. It's placed on the floor of a stone-bottomed very hot oven. Due to the thin crust, most of the cooking is through the dough, by conduction. The hot air above the pizza browns the crust at the edges, and if one is not skilled, everything else.
Most pizza, including most of the US, is really a baked item. The rectangular slices in Italy were a baked item. US equivalent (in NYC) would be a "Sicilian Pie" - which, except that sauce/cheese are default toppings, is breadier and taste quite different. The stuff in the chain stores is, as often as not, not even a yeast dough, but a baking soda horror that passes through an oven on a slow-moving belt. Honestly, for most of the country, people don't know any better. If they did, Dumbinoes, Pizza Slut, and their ilk would have long since been out of business.
And, of course, one of the most important factors: what one is used to.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos wrote: the "NYC" pizza isn't actually baked. It's placed on the floor of a stone-bottomed very hot oven
This is the normal way of making pizza on the continent, the Sicilian style, put in an oiled pan and then in the oven, is less common (but very nice too, the base gets an oil fry and goes very crispy).
I disagree with 'most of the cooking is through the dough'. I have a wood fired pizza oven myself, and the top bubbles almost as soon as it is in. That is from the fierce heat coming from above )it is a flame grill really). The stone floor is hot too, gives a nice well cooked base you can hold in your hand easily.
My toppings are sparse, a thin tomato sauce, and so little cheese and topping you can see the bread, lightly coloured red, through the topping. Thin base too. Very thin. So it isnt a bread meal, but ultra quick cooked toppings on a thin crust.
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Your description of Sicilian style is basically accurate. I know it's baked because of the time involved vs. the Neapolitan style (viz-a-viz, NYC), which is done in a fraction of the time. Also, the latter is not cooked in a puddle of oil. Typically, the oven's in the neighborhood of 300-350C, but the heat source does not directly access the oven contents.
Favorite toppings: breaded eggplant - makes each slice into a glorious merging of pizza and eggplant parmigiana. However, we generally order a plain pie to take out (i.e., sauce+cheese) and add toppings as the mood strikes; commonly, these are typically selected from sliced black and/or green olives, chopped onions, mushrooms, thinly sliced hot peppers (jalapeno, serrano, bannana-pepper, etc., ca. 5K-10K scoville), pepper flakes, oregano, dill (Mrs. Wife's favorite), "pizza pepper", or sometimes best of all - nothing at all.
As for how pizza cooks in your personal oven? That's your oven. Sounds, from your description, like broiling.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Well, then it's time to try some Dutch food, what do you think of our pea-soup, kroket, and last but not least: stroopwafels 
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ollie bols
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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I cant stand peas or beans, so ewrten soup is right out!
Kroketen are good though, especialy garnalkroketen.
Stroopwaffels are delicious, as are normal waffels.
My favourite though is gratineered witlof, absoloutely delicious!
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You are connaisseurs Witlof with ham and macaroni gratinee with cheese is a dish we eat very often too !
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