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mark merrens wrote: apart from diners (love 'em),
You have just stated your qualifications as a connoisseur. Or more specifically, permanently excluded yourself from the title.
As for overpriced - only because you apparently frequented the tourist traps. The normal neighborhood restaurants are a good feeding for a good price.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos wrote: Or more specifically, permanently excluded yourself from the title.
Rubbish: diner food is the only honest food here (apart form, perhaps, some of the gourmet food trucks).
W∴ Balboos wrote: only because you apparently frequented the tourist traps.
Don't silly: you might frequent tourist traps, which is, presumably, what has colored your rather lop-sided view of cuisine, but I don't.
W∴ Balboos wrote: The normal neighborhood restaurants are a good feeding for a good price.
Oh, you mean Red Lobster and Olive Garden: sorry, I didn't realize that was your benchmark.
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mark merrens wrote: Oh, you mean Red Lobster and Olive Garden: sorry, I didn't realize that was your benchmark.
No, silly person. No one with a sense of taste eats in those places.
If you want Italian food you go to an Italian restaurant (almost all are primarily southern Italian)
Pizza - pretty much only in NY. A separate category from Italian because it's a specialty, of sorts.
Asian food? Pick Chinese, Japanese, Thai, Indian.
Neighborhood restaurants implies non-chain eating.
So - for you singling those out as eligible for eating explains your vision. It's time to take the (feed) bag off your head so you can find some genuine cooking.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Nonsense: the Indian here is muck. Try the Indian Ocean in Theydon Bois or, for the best fish restaurant ever, Smiths in Ongar. Italian? La Figa in Wapping. American? Wolfes in Great Queen Street. Outsanding food att he Wolesley in Piccadily or Langhams in Langham Street. Greek or Turkish? Anywhere in North London. Japanese? There's alittle place behind Selfridges - fantastic. The Fat Duck in Bray. St James's, the Ritz for afternoon tea. Home House. Pizza on the South Bank. Italian opposite Harrods - Montpeliano. The Elephant Royale (Thai) in Redbridge. I could go on but, unless you've eaten in London you know not of what you speak.
I say again, the only decent food in the USA is form diners: the rest don't have a clue.
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I'm beginning to detect ever so faint a hint of snobbery?
From your referenced establishments:
I don't need a waiter in a tux to enjoy my food.
Neither a check to eat a week's pay.
A paper napkin is fine.
I simply enjoy the most important part of eat-out food: flavor.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos wrote: I'm beginning to detect ever so faint a hint of snobbery?
Nope; I like diner food and I like burgers. I'll eat burgers off a roach coach, or hotdogs from a street vendor. But I also like good food. None of those places are stuffy or have surly waiters in tuxedos. What they do have is good food and good service (you need both).
Flavor? Good luck finding that here.
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If you're the Mark Merrens California resident, what you say now all falls into place.
Anecdoete: My wife, when we were dating, told me she have a trip to California and saw "pineapple pizza". I shook my head in disbelief. She found the food generally wretched.
If then, you dwell in that realm, I understand your food experiences. Mine, via the greater NYC vicinity, are quite different.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Why, yes I am. And, yes, you are correct.
NY is a bit like London without the proper accent. 
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Context!
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I've eaten in CA but in the off the path sort of places that you mention. I've found the food there both good and bad. The same goes for OR, UT, AZ, TX, NY, NJ, IL (Chicago), NV (LV) and OH.
I've also eaten in many places in Europe and find the food there both good and bad. Mostly good.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein
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Exactly.
There's another component, as well: one becomes habituated to their local cuisine. It's comforting. The offensive parts (to most) can be the Pavlovian trigger to the eater.
In my particular area, ethnicity is persevered rather well in the cuisine. As one gets to less and less urban areas, the ethnicity is (of necessity) diluted with local preference (or bankruptcy).
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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My friend, you accuse Mr Merrens of exactly what you are guilty of. It's certainly true that almost all visitors, to a new town or a new country, are unlikely to get to eat at the most representative establishments. Any major tourist trap is mostly inhabited by big-business, mass-produced food consortiums (and the truth is that most of these are American).
Britain is incredibly diverse. Liverpool and Manchester ar 30 miles apart, yet the accents, vernacular and traditional foods are very different. There are differences between East and West London. There are many traditional British foods that I, as a well travelled and foodie ex-Brit haven't even tried.
Many of the things I grew up with have become mass produced or hard to find in modern Britain (unless you are truly a local). Even food establishments for the poor working class when I was a kid used wholesome, fresh ingredients (e.g., the humble Pie & Mash shop's "liquor" was a freshly made flour and herb gravy). These places still exist, but most eateries are big business just as they are in the US, where profit invariably comes before quality.
Many of the world's most renowned chefs come from Britain. Probably the two most famous TV chefs internationally are Gordon Ramsey (Scot) and Jamie Oliver (an Essex boy!)
Some of the world's best cheese comes from Britain (especially Wales and England) and no other country has the diversity. I'm willing to bet that I could name more cheese varieties from Britain than anyone could name from the rest of the world (at least without cheating and searching on the web!)
One last point about "imported" cuisine which Britain has at least as much of as the US and that's authenticity. Buy a Carbonara in North America and you'll most probably be served an Alfredo sauce. In Britain, your sauce will ALWAYS be an egg custard (authentic). I have yet to find any Chinese restaurant here selling a decent crispy duck. Go to the UK and every Chinese restaurant I've ever eaten at serves the real thing.
We Brits can hold our heads up with regard to our food. If your experience has been poor, I suggest you engage with some locals if you visit again AND get out of the main tourist areas and see the real Britain!
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
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The above notwithstanding (pretending I believe a word of it).
Mr Merrins & I have actually (above) reached an understanding: it was a matter of Context - where he dines (regionally) vs. where I do.
The same concept goes to you: where is "Here" for you? My here has a Chinatown full of Chinese (surprise!), many new immigrants, and those crispy ducks you speak of? Hanging in rows in shop after shop - for take home. Restaurants order what supply they need from the pros dedicated to that specialty. Not finding a good one probably means you look in the wrong places (or, at least, your restaurant does).
Per TV chef reference: that undercuts credibility of all of your claims.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Here is rural Ontario.
My main point is, nose tweaking aside, is that visitors rarely see the reality. It's also true to say that "ethnic" localities, like the various China towns in North America (yes, we have them up here too!) are more likely to be authentic.
I've visited the States on more than a few occasions, but have probably eaten out with locals only once (in Boulder) that I can recall. I've had good and bad dining experiences there. If you travel Britain, you have to know the places to go or, at least, the type of place. I'm pretty certains that it's much the same in any developed country.
As far as the last sentence goes, that's just trolling! Ramsey might be a git, I'm not actually sure. His shock-jock (there's a pun there somewhere) tactics on TV are almost certainly just performing for ratings. He is a Michelin awarded chef and truly great at his craft. Jamie Oliver is not just a great chef, he's a great bloke too
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
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If you look way back at the source of this (the Scotland thread) - you'll notice it was all in fun (as it should be).
Of the TV chef, I used to like Yan, of "Yan Can Cook" - not for his actual cooking, but learning techniques. I cook a lot of Chinese style food - and much of the trick, if one can call it that, is the a combination of technique and a certain spirit. I have no recipes - I use what I have because, that, it turns out, is how it's really done.
(Restaurants don't have that luxury if they want to actually have a menu).
And panning your chefs? That's not trolling. Just good honest teasing.
I'll probably be gone by the time (and if) you reply.
B'tay Avon.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Quote: you'll notice it was all in fun (as it should be
Absolutely, right back at yer (as were the trolling and sugar and jalapenos comments!)
I do most of the cooking at home myself, I'm allergic to garlic, which does make for challenges eating out, so we probably share a passion for taste and quality.
Londoners (for I am one) are renowned for our robust sense of humour as I believe are New Yorkers. We greet each other with insults (at least our friends and family.)
Have a good evening if you catch this and bon appetit!
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
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having recently tried an "merkin" stake I can inform you that compared to Scottish Beef it was bland and tasteless.
exactly what is American food? as far as I can tell it just pouring heavily favoured sauces over bland food
then again when has the US ever been known for its food (except in its outrageous quantities)
and even worse its beer! how anyone can class that dishwater Budweiser as a beer is beyond me (and its an insult to Whisk(e)y to have that word on the bottle of a lot of varnish remover that is distilled over there)
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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There are some good American dishes: American Meatloaf is worth eating. As is "Moms Apple Pie" (if you ignore that it's about as American as falafel...
But you have to remember two things:
1) Nearly all "American food" is a variation of the native food the settlers brought with them.
2) This is the nation that invented spray on cheese... 
You looking for sympathy?
You'll find it in the dictionary, between sympathomimetic and sympatric
(Page 1788, if it helps)
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Griff,
I have to take issue with the Apple Pie (notwitstanding your comment about the truth of its Americanness). The best apple pies are made with Bramley apples (I've never seen one over here) and shortcrust pastry made with lard (not vegetable shortening).
As for my credentials, my grandfather was head pastry chef at the Hyde Park Hotel and two of my uncles were master chefs (one ran a training school in North London). My mum (god bless her) made the best shortcrust, puff, choux and suet pastry I've ever had, all from scratch (ne'er a frozen pre-made pack in the house!)
So, the American Apple Pie, like American democracy, is flawed in both the implementation and the belief that it is they who invented it.
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
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The best are indeed - Bramleys have the right combination of "tartness" and "sweetness" to work beautifully. But the US ones aren't bad - if you ignore the factory grown versions which aren't really representative!
(As it happens we get rubbish TV shows like "How it's made" and suchlike which tour such places and will put you off processed food rather quickly. I think one of them covered a US "pie" factory...  )
You looking for sympathy?
You'll find it in the dictionary, between sympathomimetic and sympatric
(Page 1788, if it helps)
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Griff,
It's certainly true that there are some nice apples here, but I'd trade for Cox's or Russets any day. My favourites here are probably Courtland, although they can tend to the waxy. They have a good taste balance. Empires aren't bad. My wife likes Honey Crisp, but I think that they are a bit sweet and tastelss (crispy though!)
Typically store bought fruit is picked too early and lacks distinction compared to buying direct from the farm or farmers' markets we have here. Fortunately I'm not far from Niagara which is great fruit growing country (but lacks the long winters of Britain for the best apples!)
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
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PhilLenoir wrote: Typically store bought fruit is picked too early and lacks distinction
We have the same problem here...
I used to have a Bramley tree in the garden, but it had to go because the core rotted out and it was getting too dangerous. Lovely apples though.
What I miss are "real" strawberries - the supermarket ones are grown fro size and colour not taste, and Herself insists on growing wild strawberries so we can't have the cultivated variety in the same area. When I was a kid, the few short weeks of "pick your own" season were magic!
You looking for sympathy?
You'll find it in the dictionary, between sympathomimetic and sympatric
(Page 1788, if it helps)
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They are actually mostly grown for transportability over several days, so they are not properly ripe when picked.
I've noticed that everyone no matter where they are from, are of the belief that their own countrys strawberries are the best, when it's mostly a matter of how ripe they are.
Naturally the best ones are from your own garden, picked at exactly the right time.
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Jörgen Andersson wrote: Naturally the best ones are from your own garden, picked at exactly the right time
Assuming you can beat the %#*#%!!& slugs to it! 
And as for the gooseberry sawfly... Don't get me started...
You looking for sympathy?
You'll find it in the dictionary, between sympathomimetic and sympatric
(Page 1788, if it helps)
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and remember we have had similar, if you take my local eateries we have
Indian (to many to mention all types areas and styles - including the Balti from Glasgow/Birmingham*)
Chinese
Philippian
Caribbean
French
Italian
English (delicious pies)
Thai
Russian
Mediterranean
Middle Eastern
Spanish
Greek
and numerous international chains
oh and the odd place that has an American origin serving soya based brown patties in something that is distantly related to bread (I think)
and that's from a northern town you can pretty much find any cuisine in the world in London and at a standard that equals that of any other capital city
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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