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What you describe is rather a community problem than a language problem.
Also unless you want to use a task runner you could also just add it your test automation script to your package.json scripts section - problem solved.
I'm not opposed to what you wrote (I also think that the JS community is developing new tools for solved problems too often instead of making the existing solutions better), but some parts of it sound a little bit unjustified / unfair to me.
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Florian Rappl wrote: What you describe is rather a community problem than a language problem.
Yeah, that's true. Although things would be easier if JavaScript offered any support for anything in the first place. Unfortunately, it offers about what can be expected from 10 days development back in '95.
It's all good that W3C have been making specifications to make it better for about 20 years, but it still feels like JavaScript is just missing out on a lot (especially when you have to support older browsers, but that is another problem).
Florian Rappl wrote: Also unless you want to use a task runner you could also just add it your test automation script to your package.json scripts section - problem solved.
True, but that's also a bit limiting. And of course I do want a task runner, lint the code, test the code, calculate coverage, make reports, minify, run it in my CI environment, etc.
Florian Rappl wrote: some parts of it sound a little bit unjustified / unfair to me
I guess you're right there. It sounds as though I'm attacking the tools, but the tools are pretty good.
It's just pretty hard to get into if you need to read up on all that stuff before you can just run a test.
Decided to go with Protractor for my Selenium tests by the way.
Will check out Nightwatch.js and/or WebDriverIO later as well.
Unit tests is Jasmine with Karma (and played around with Mocha and chai for a bit).
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Protractor seems indeed quite nice - I'll put that on my list for future considerations with any Selenium-based tests. Thanks!
And yes, I do agree - JS suffers a lot from the rushed implementation which left no time for in-detail design discussions. Generally (not only talking about initial design choices, but taking all factors into account), I consider it the "best and worst language" available. It's a paradox.
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Florian Rappl wrote: I consider it the "best and worst language" available. It's a paradox.
I completely agree with you there! And I must confess, the ecosystem, while annoying, makes it even better! 
It's also the language I love to hate the most 
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Your hate will dissipate for silly stuff like this when you start getting laid. 
Jeremy Falcon
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I was really close recently!
Met this chick at the club, brought her to my place.
While we were getting ready she told me to talk dirty to her.
I told her:
var o = {
firstName: null,
lastName: null
};
o.prototype.getName = function () {
return this.firstName + ' ' + this.lastName;
}She left... 
Looking back at it I realized my mistake.
Never talk JavaScript on first dates!
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Imagine that.
Jeremy Falcon
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This is CP, making rational and intelligent thoughts and comments about anything we don't like initially is not how it works. 
Jeremy Falcon
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Good luck. From my experience (mainly with Selenium) everything is browser and browser version dependent and basically all of it sucks on way or another.
Sander Rossel wrote: Choice is good, but this is insane!
FTFY.
Marc
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Marc Clifton wrote: everything is browser and browser version dependent and basically all of it sucks on way or another
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of web development either! 
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I'd suggest getting a good book on the subject and follow the path it teaches. It's so popular now that if you sneeze, there's 20 frameworks for that. Impossible to learn that way.
Jeremy Falcon
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But I'm writing that book (seriously)!
Learning from books has never been my thing.
I need to get my hands dirty and try out some stuff.
That's also how I like to learn new stuff, by searching and playing around (and sometimes trial and error).
That's the reason why I've always hated school and why I'll never go back to school again, it sucks the pleasure right out of anything!
In fact, I stopped programming in my spare time when I took up on an IT study at the Open University! It took about two or three years until I finally realized school was holding me back.
When I quit I got that drive back that I had before I picked up that study.
I'm glad I didn't do an IT study after high school (I did journalism). If I did IT at school I might never have worked in IT now (like I'm also not working in journalism) 
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I feel ya, I suppose the same thing would apply though, just pick an area to start with and stay with it. And while I can be very pro-book to give someone a head start, learning by trial and error is smart so kudos. Sometimes, you just can't beat experience.
Jeremy Falcon
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This Morning when I fired up Visual Studio 2017 RC, I was greeted with a pop-up window from Microsoft. MS requested me to take part in a survey regarding my experience with VS2017. I did the survey. The questions mainly centered around my opinion on whether the product was ready for final release. I was quite impressed, but then at the end they asked whether they may contact me in case they needed further details. Aww shucks Microsoft!  I didn't think you would care about little ole me and my opinion of VS!
I must say that my impressions of VS 2017 so far are positive. I do hope the final release will be available as a free community edition, like 2015.
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
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Why do you doubt that MS is not interested in your personal data?
Quote: must say that my impressions of VS 2017 so far are positive.
I'm impressed also from VS2013 until current Version from this VS stuff.
Kind regards (this one aproved by CP experts )
A tormented embarcadero user
modified 19-Jan-21 21:04pm.
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Cornelius Henning wrote: I didn't think you would care about little ole me and my opinion of VS!
They don't. They ask for your opinion just so they can ignore it even harder
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I've heard that the designer doesn't run out of memory quite as often in '17 as in previous versions. Do you know if this is true?
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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Quote: Do you know if this is true?
I have used it extensively over the past few weeks and it never ran out of memory - not once!
With VS2012 it happened almost every day.
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
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Cornelius Henning wrote: With VS2012 it happened almost every day.
Heck, we have some huge forms at work and VS '15 runs out of memory just about every 30 mins!
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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I would be interested to hear your impressions of VS2017.
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
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I often run out of memory. It happens almost every day!
... such stuff as dreams are made on
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So you missed reading the reports where ms says it's unhappy because so many developers are bypassing their personal-information-gathering spyware saintly telemetry functions?
Not much point in stopping them spying on you helping you with their saintly telemetry functions if you're just going to allow them direct access to you.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Got any links for this? I'd like to read more.
I know there was some brouhaha over them doing this for C++ code (which they supposedly removed in Update 3), but I hadn't heard any more after that.
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I'm pretty sure it was in an article in the Insider News (since that's just about the only place where I read tech news).
It was going on about how developers and the tech elite were putting themselves more at risk because they knew how to get around winio's forced updates.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Ah, ok - that's different than what I was thinking about. The issue I had in mind was something that happened in May/June of last year where the VS C++ compiler was injecting Microsoft telemetry calls into your compiled binaries.
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