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This sounds like an interesting VS plugin: VS PerfWatson[^].
The plugin detects when Visual Studio hangs. When it hangs, it sends the hung stack trace to MS. MS spends less time investigating VS performance problems and more time fixing them[^].
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango
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Bah... Looks nice, but my office still uses XP, and that requires Vista/7.
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Ian Shlasko wrote: still uses XP
Wow. 11 year old OS. Yikes.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango
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Hey, I'm still using W2K at work
Steve
_________________
I C(++) therefore I am
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You're not alone
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Judah Himango wrote: MS spends less time investigating VS performance problems
You mean performance problems in VS 2010 are not obvious enough? It's startup time is almost same as that of Eclipse.
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Surely that's not the only performance problem?
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango
modified on Monday, May 9, 2011 2:00 PM
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I still don't know, VS2010 is still loading!!
Watched code never compiles.
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This community is so damn cynical!
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango
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Actually, we're realists...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010 ----- You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010 ----- "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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Actually, I think too many people here are crotchety, sarcastic whiners who complain about everything, do little or nothing to improve things, and couldn't do a better job themselves building said [product/tech] if they tried. Still, that doesn't stop them from whining.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango
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How do you expect us to act when after reporting bugs to Microsoft, we're told they're not going to fix the problem. That's happened to me twice - once with the syntax highlighting issues in VS2010, and another time regarding non-client-hit testing for a windows bug that they freely admitted was an actual bug.
Whinging? Nope - I think it's more like spitting into the wind.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010 ----- You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010 ----- "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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Yep, happened to me several times. In fact, there's one case on MS Connect that I filed in 2002, and they still haven't resolved it. (keeps getting, "considered for a future version").
It sucks.
IT's like I tell my kids. Complain about it once, OK. Complain about it for weeks on end, not OK. Sometimes things can't be fixed. Sad fact of life. Get over it. Move on. Stop complaining.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: How do you expect us to act
Try to improve the situation.
This thread is about a VS plugin that can improve the situation. Instead of bitching, and joking about all the places MS sucks, do something about it. This VS plugin is a small step in the right direction. Install it. Let it send hangs to MS. VS improves, and there's just a little less bitching to be done in the world. Win.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango
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Judah Himango wrote: Let it send hangs to MS. VS improves
I think you're assuming a bit too much, there.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010 ----- You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010 ----- "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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3 possible outcomes of trying to improve the situation:
-Best case: Microsoft fixes many hangs. VS improves.
-Likely case: Microsoft fixes a few common hangs. VS improves.
-Worst case: Microsoft fixes no hangs. VS doesn't improve.
Even for the worst case, it's still as good as your current solution, which is bitching about it and nothing getting fixed.
Try to improve the situation. Install the damn plugin. There will be at least one less bitchfest in the years to come.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango
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Judah Himango wrote: Install the damn plugin
Why should I? Microsoft has a pretty poor track record as far as I'm concerned. If I'm gonna get dirty, I insist that Microsoft get in the mud pit with me. they've shown no desire to do that.
I kind of enjoy this love/hate thing we have going here. You love VS2010, we hate it. It's our own version of yin/yang, providing balance in the universe.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010 ----- You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010 ----- "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: Why should I?
Because it's an attempt to improve the situation. That's better than bitching.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: I kind of enjoy this love/hate thing we have going here. You love VS2010, we hate it. It's our own version of yin/yang, providing balance in the universe.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: If I'm gonna get dirty, I insist that Microsoft get in the mud pit with me.
What do you mean?
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango
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It's a colloquialism.
If I'm going to go through the trouble/hassle of installing a plug-in, they're gonna have to take it to heart and start telling me something besides, "it's not worth fixing". In case you haven't picked up on it yet, that really pissed me off.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010 ----- You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010 ----- "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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Ok, fair enough. They've been using this tool at Microsoft to find and fix VS hangs. Does that count?
Quoting an MS dev,
This tool has been used inside Microsoft for several months, and the results have been astounding. The quality of the bug reports this tool generates are superb, and allows the Visual Studio feature teams to spend more time fixing issues, and less time investigating and trying to reproduce issues.
If you are encountering responsiveness issues in the IDE, and would like your issues fixed, this extension is a must have.
I'm with you about MS Connect, by the way. They need to hire more people to fix more bugs. Too many things go unresolved/postponed/will not fix. I think cases that are auto-reported from this plugin have a higher chance of getting fixed, as they are actionable items with stack trace, whereas MS Connect issues often are less concrete, less actionable.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango
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To be fair, not all problems are Microsofts fault. Take for example: vs2010-rtm-crashes-when-unlocking-xp[^] - from the memory dump wesaw the video driver was the culprit, not a Microsoft problem.
I too have had my fair share of Connect issues rejected, marked as designed, or wont fix. Half the time I think its due to all the hoops and quality checks to get releases out the door at Microsoft, eg: DebugDiag - The Saga to RTM[^]
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Judah Himango wrote: When it hangs, it sends the hung stack trace to MS. MS spends less time
investigating VS performance problems and more time fixing ignoring them
You spelled a word wrong. Don't worry, I fixed it...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010 ----- You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010 ----- "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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From the link: If VS goes unresponsive for more than 2 seconds, Perf Watson grabs a stack frame.
That's the problem. When I use it, VS 2010 rarely goes unresponsive for 2 seconds, it just feels sluggish. Usability tests have proven over and over that if something takes more than 100 ms, users notice it's not instantaneous. By 300 ms, it becomes obvious. By 1 second it becomes measurably disruptive.
Microsoft has an excellent usability department, so why do so many divisions and teams at Microsoft ignore them? (Rhetorical question--solving customer problems takes a back seat to using the latest "in" technology.)
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Yep, there are sluggish parts. Still, I'm happy if they fix some of the hangs. Step in the right direction.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango
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