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S Houghtelin wrote: Jeremy, consider your own words in regards to your chastisement of Marc’s viewpoint.
Oh yeah I know. Marc and I go way back though. So, he has to like me.  And he knows I don't think he's uneducated. I'm talking about the general folks that really get into it.
S Houghtelin wrote: As I tell my hard-line friends, I am a staunch moderate.
Exactly. Extremes are bad. In fact, I think if you talk to most people in real life the the majority would agree with us. However, TV caters to extremes... like click bait. Politics as far as TV is concerned is more like Jerry Springer here than anything else, and anyone who has seen Jerry Springer being filmed knows part of it is scripted.
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: And it's a result of doing less and sitting at home more as the entertainment values of being inside are starting to far outweigh the entertainment value of being outside to most. More so than ever in history. We're over compensating with pretend lives and pretend crap on TV and play video games and never walk outside where we're forced to interact with people, see more of the world, and grow.
You mean back in the good ol' days when you sent the kids out to play so they could find some hapless animal to torture and then later on entertain themselves by watching the neighbor kid get beaten in the yard with a father's belt, then that night to see the police politely bring home the drunken council man, so drunk that the police have to help them walk, and the police helpfully show up the following morning to drive that same person back to the car that they were driving when the police pulled them over.
Not to mention the locally bully boys putting on their sh*t kickers and heading out for some friday night drinking followed up by cruising 'those' neighborhoods to find some gay guys to beat the hell out of.
Those days?
Jeremy Falcon wrote: Please man, don't get your information from TV. Once you see TV being made you get a better sense of how fake it all is. Politics is a game for uneducated fools who do not study history, economics, psychology, body language, etc.
Yep, good ol' days before TV when newspapers published actual fiction as news such as made up explorers finding imaginary beasts not to mention actual libelous stories written solely to promote the political goals of the publisher if not actually winning political campaigns for those same publishers. Not even that long ago when newspapers would not publish anything that might 'shock' the readers regardless of how relevant it was.
Not to mention of course actual vote buying was all the rage way back when.
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You used a period again. 
Jeremy Falcon
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Dude, let's be real for a minute. Ever since I "e-met" you online, all you ever did was argue with me. I'm not sure if it's how you treat everyone or just me. This post is a classic straw man tactic. Fake news has nothing to do with beating gay guys. How many friends you actually have bro? No, don't answer that. I'm sure it'll be another online argument if you do.
Jeremy Falcon
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Your post was implicitly suggesting some imaginary time when things were 'better' without defining specifically how they were better, why that was better nor even when the imaginary time was.
Jeremy Falcon wrote: all you ever did was argue with me
You are not special.
Even in this regard, many people here have posted that past times were better, while completely ignoring the reality of the past.
Jeremy Falcon wrote: How many friends you actually have bro?
That question of course has nothing to do with anything.
Jeremy Falcon wrote: Fake news has nothing to do with beating gay guys
No idea what you are suggesting.
However, in the past beating up gay guys was something that the police and law enforcement either specifically ignored and sometimes even participated in. And the newspapers did not report on it.
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jschell wrote: That question of course has nothing to do with anything.
Answer = 0, or else you'd get it.
jschell wrote: No idea what you are suggesting.
Clearly
Go get some people skills man. Bye.
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: Answer = 0, or else you'd get it.
You are incorrect. And it still has nothing to do with this.
Jeremy Falcon wrote: Go get some people skills man.
Denigration is what people resort to when they can no longer address the actual points.
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Feel free to express yourself as you wish with the knowledge that responses that ignore the actual points reflect on you and not me.
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No. It means you need a life. And I have better things to do than argue with an overgrown child online.
Anyone that actually spends time around people in real life can see through the childish veil of yours online. Now be an adult and go away.
If you’re so childish to need the last word. You can have it. Be the online king. I’ll prefer a real life. So enjoy your Internet victory that grown ups don’t care about.
Now go away.
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: And I have better things to do than argue with an overgrown child online.
Yet your emotional needs still require that you denigrate others with your spare time.
Jeremy Falcon wrote: If you’re so childish to need the last word.
I feel the need to point out your need to denigrate rather than respond. Other than that my emotional outlook is one of enjoyment.
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I think I figured it out. You're secretly in love with me. It all makes sense now.
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: o what we consider blue collar products or services today will go out the window for most people.
Well, careful about the 'blue collar going away',
when I was young (read: long time ago)
- computer people were in high demand, paid well (even the white coat guys changing the loading the tapes), and enjoyed nice quite weekends, and bosses were careful because they were hard to find, many even got a company car
- blue collar workers, plumbers, builders, sparkeys (tradies) drove 10 year and older beat-up trucks/vans, started at the crack of dawn and got home late, and often worked weekends, when you called them they came as soon as possible because they wanted to make money
Today it's pretty much the opposite,
- many computer guys drive beat up old heaps or catch the bus, maybe not start so early but certainly often finish late many work weekends too (I'm talking the help-desk/service dept/programming drones etc)
- blue collar tradies often decide to not even bother coming if you call them, knock off early almost every day, drive brand new trucks/vans that they change every couple of years, in the weekends they park their truck, hook up the boat/jet-ski trailer to their also brand new BMW and go to the beach/sea/fishing...
sure AI will fix your spreadsheet and order beer for your fridge when it's low, but I can't see it building a fence or even changing a blown light bulb (it'll tell you, but not do it.
My second job, a support role, I'd regularly drive say 5 miles to a customer site to plug the RS232 or/and power cable back into the VDU, or reset the modem. (Loved it - got out of the office and they paid mileage.)
I wouldn't go pure software, perhaps some physical skill development could help - installing the home entertainment centre - not just the software on it.
And you've already identified where the money is: People are getting lazier.... I'll take that mega sized TV, does it come with free delivery and installation? Oh, extra $100, sure, put it on the bill, $150 if I want it tonight? - done. The guys bring it inside, unpack it, hang it up, plug it in, and the total sum of programming: press the auto-tune button.
5 minutes and a free can of coke later - all done.
Easiest $100 ever made (even if it cost $50 for expenses gas/parking it's still $50 for 5 minutes work) - and in the UK alone that happens thousands of times per day.
(Something I reckon Dire Straights got wrong - know hard hard it is to get on to MTV?.)
Installing Signature...
Do not switch off your computer.
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Lopatir wrote: And you've already identified where the money is: People are getting lazier.... I'll take that mega sized TV, does it come with free delivery and installation? Oh, extra $100, sure, put it on the bill, $150 if I want it tonight? - done. The guys bring it inside, unpack it, hang it up, plug it in, and the total sum of programming: press the auto-tune button.
5 minutes and a free can of coke later - all done.
Easiest $100 ever made (even if it cost $50 for expenses gas/parking it's still $50 for 5 minutes work) - and in the UK alone that happens thousands of times per day.
I'm the guy who will hook up his own home theater system, but you couldn't pay me enough to do that for someone else, every day, for a living. Your "5 minutes of work" doesn't include the time to sit in traffic to get to the customer's home, get everything out of the truck, in bad weather, over some stairs, dealing with a-holes, etc.
If that's all the type of work that will remain for us humans - jobs that no amount of automation will be able to replace - then that's a sad prospect indeed.
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Oh I totally agree with you there man. People are getting lazier. What I'm getting at with that though is what we consider manual labor will change. Eventually, it'll be done by robots. Blue color work will exist in the future, but what exactly it entails will change.
Jeremy Falcon
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While it is clear that most (some) of us will be irrelevant as the content of the industry shifts to new things... However it is completely wrong that today software development understood better by the average people...
There is a new way the big ones force you to use a technology - they jump over you and advertise the new technology as the ever best solution to your customer's problem (or any problem for that matter), so you are locked in, but that does not make the customer someone who better understands technology...
Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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Only death is for free, and even that will cost you your life.
You know what an illusion this 'for free' stuff really is. It may be a bait to lure you into someone's walled garden where they try to lock you in and milk you as much as possible, or it is the bait to lure you onto some website and see as much advertising as possible (while 'voluntarily' revealing as much information as possible about yourself).
This will no doubt get even more extreme, that's why I don't buy stuff from someone's CrapStore (C)(TM)(R), use an OS where I can download and use stuff without having to use someone's CrapStore and most importantly, publish my stuff without being censored by some company and their CrapStore. And too much 'for free' is a good way to make me leave a website and not to lure me into using it.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
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CodeWraith wrote: Only death is for free,
You haven't dealt with a funeral home, have you?
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True words.
Jeremy Falcon
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Recently, unfortunately, but that's more of a problem for those who are not dead yet.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
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[Edit]
Oh, and ![Rose | [Rose]](https://codeproject.freetls.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/rose.gif) I suppose
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Oh, I totally agree with you there. There's always a price for everything. I'm more so referring to the face value of course. But I totally agree with you... one way or another people will pay.
Jeremy Falcon
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The older I get, the tighter the mesh through which I screen my own assumptions about what 'will be' ... based on what seems like 'common sense' ... based on my perceptions of 'what is' ... and, the greater my tendency to question all generalizations, and prognostications.
The meme of the Sage/Philosopher/Prophet decrying the degeneration of the young is a persistent literary phenomenon.Quote: They [Young People] have exalted notions, because they have not been humbled by life or learned its necessary limitations; moreover, their hopeful disposition makes them think themselves equal to great things -- and that means having exalted notions. They would always rather do noble deeds than useful ones: Their lives are regulated more by moral feeling than by reasoning -- all their mistakes are in the direction of doing things excessively and vehemently. They overdo everything -- they love too much, hate too much, and the same with everything else.
(Aristotle)
I suspect that by twenty years from now there will be technical innovations whose impact will rival the "disruptiveness" of the steam engine, the airplane, the telephone, the movies, the internet, etc.
imho, the most disruptive change is happening now: the transition from a society where identity is "pinned" to work to a future of vastly reduced employment due to robots and automation. [^]
I also suspect, that some of the (disruptive) innovations will be related to biology, neuroscience, genetic engineering, and the control of (what we now struggle to define as) "consciousness."
And, I do suspect there will be calamities of vast scale, man-made (war, genocide, terrorism), and natural (disease, climate change related). We Homo Saps will keep on being the violent collectivist predators evolution engineered us to be, while, on other levels continuing to redeem ourselves in spite of ourselves.
I tell myself that I am happy with the idea I will leave this body well before the next score of years ends 
«While I complain of being able to see only a shadow of the past, I may be insensitive to reality as it is now, since I'm not at a stage of development where I'm capable of seeing it. A few hundred years later another traveler despairing as myself, may mourn the disappearance of what I may have seen, but failed to see.» Claude Levi-Strauss (Tristes Tropiques, 1955)
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They would always rather do noble deeds than useful ones
Over 2000 years, and nothing has changed. 
It's so ironic because in my (now more "mature") thinking, you should first do useful deeds before embarking on noble ones. 
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At the age of 47 I agree with what you are saying.
I think we could give young people a bit more slack.
"The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise."
Socrates
That said the internet definitely seems to have accelerated communication and change. With even young people saying that every six months they are having to learn some new framework or technology.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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