|
For our web apps (which is almost all that is now done here aside from a few mobile apps) we have a web designer who takes what the proper devs do and formats, styles, moves around the layout of the UI.
For everything else the dev is responsible for everything and it is usually someone from the business who requests changes to the layout or use of the UI. Many systems look crap and are horrible to use for that reason, especially some bought in systems.
I have always had an interest in making the UI as usable as possible, and to do that you need to know your users, we are often kept remote from them here which I think is a mistake.
When designing a Windows UI and building one I always worked out how the user would be entering the data, what did they already know or use, how could I make it slow their jobs down as little as possible.
For example we had a winforms app running on toughbooks with touchscreens. The users were engineers who stabbed at the screen with fingers or the back ends of pens. We collected time entries from them. So I created a control that was designed to make stabbing a time into the thing as easy as possible, then I tried to do it wrong as many different ways as I could think, then I got a couple of users to use it.
Too many devs expect the user to use a screen the same way that they do, and doing anything a different way can cause unexpected results which is then the user's fault for not using it properly.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
|
|
|
|
|
UI/UX is a very different beast to functional development. I have worked in front-end a lot, but I would not describe myself as a UI/UX developer.
They exist and if you can get a good one they are very good. The average ones don't have enough flair to be designers or brains to be developers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
We have an old system here, developed externally then the source code bought for in house maintenance, that is full of screens that look very, very much like that.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
|
|
|
|
|
I can't imagine doing WPF development without a specialized UI developer. In a recent project (my first WPF project) we have exactly that person, and it makes life a heck of a lot easier. The web development I've done has been mostly records management so we've gotten away without a UI developer.
Marc
|
|
|
|
|
Other areas of the business (mostly web stuff) have UI/UX developers.
I tend to work on my own so do the GUI in WPF - i even write my own database engines and programming languages so I am all over the problem domain 
I have shown the GUIs I have developed to some of the UI/UX guys and besides the occasional, very marginal, colour change they couldn't fault them - which was nice.
|
|
|
|
|
90% of an application is the UI, and 95% of UI work is keeping the user from hurting himself and others. I've found that users don't care about colors, or graphics as long as it doesn't get in the way of what they need to do. A well-implemented form doesn't have to be "pretty" to get the job done.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
|
|
|
|
|
We do
cheers
Chris Maunder
|
|
|
|
|
When I worked in a biomedical research department we didn't have a 'UI developer'. Instead we had two usability analysts. It was their job to work with the team during all phases of the development process. Amazingly there are degrees in the study of usability. Unfortunately it is not an exact science and ended up being a rolling process. As we made changes, the analysis process gets repeated to make sure we didn't introduce any new problems.
During requirements gathering they sat in on meetings and took notes. One of the biggest take-aways I got from that job is that you shouldn't listen to what the client is saying they want. Instead you need to listen to what the client actually wants. As Job's said "A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them." People will say they need a site that does twenty different things when really they just need five. Scope creep before the project even gets started.
During the design phase they would help design mock-ups of the screens that would be used, recommend ways to present the information, where it should be presented, and so on. Focus groups, mailing questionnaires, that sort of thing. Then they got to sort out the chaff before presenting recommended changes. It was then up to the project manager to decide if the change was important or not. Sometimes those changes were pushed to future versions, other times they were important enough that we had to change the workflow.
When development had reached a point where we had a working product, they started bringing in users and had really expensive computers which recorded where on a screen the person was looking, for how long, and so on. It generated reports, heat maps, even the order which people looked at items. This helped refine our product. If something wasn't clear, we could redesign how we presented it. Did some information appear that no one was ever looking at? If so, we could remove it to simplify the display. And so on.
After the product was finished, they would do more analysis of how people were using it and that sort of thing. That way we continued to improve on the design in future releases.
That was a place with lots of resources. In my current job? I am a one man band. I get to design the UI and even end up doing graphic design work. Trust me when I say that I am not a Photoshop guru.
|
|
|
|
|
..the UI is traditionally designed by the developer, since it has to be coded. The problem lies in the word "design", which implies that someone has to choose a color and a layout and how it has to look cool.
Vunic wrote: Can you share how UI tasks are done on your teams?
Yes, every developer writes his own, and no, not everyone knows what makes a good UI.
Find a junior-dev. Give him/her below links;
The Guidelines (NOT RULES) contain arguments on WHY stuff should be done in a certain way. It tells you when to choose a checkbox, and when you'd want a radiobutton, and the questions you should ask yourself to know which of the two would be the better choice. It explains when you want a listbox and when a combobox - both are lists from which the users selects an item, but with different optimizations. The combo optimizes space, but requires the user to click once to a) see all options, and b) click twice if the option would be changed.
The argumentation becomes repetitive and predictive after a while, and at that point you know Windows-UI expectations.
Next, the junior dev should read all UI-related articles from Joel Spolsky's blog. The blog explains UI from a user-perspective, in a simple and understandable way. Articles like this[^] one (be sure to click "next", there's six of those gems!)
Once he/she done that, you have someone who will tell you everything you did not want to know about accessability, discoverability and usability. Seriously, having a good UI is important. A good UI is something we all recognize - it's clear, simple, and elegant. It has nothing to do with animations, effects or cool colors.
It has everything to do with having a responsive and non-blocking UI (learn threading!), I recall, as VS hangs for the umptheenth time. It has to do with being able to use a program COMPLETELY without touching the mouse.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
|
|
|
|
|
Vunic wrote: Can you share how UI tasks are done on your teams?
Last time I did a UI was in windows 3.1 (before windows 95 if that helps you place it.)
So I always work with other people that do the UI work.
There are usually about 3-5 UI people per one back end person (me.)
|
|
|
|
|
No idea; I do only real coding, back-end.
You'll never get very far if all you do is follow instructions.
|
|
|
|
|
Timeghost[^]
Randall Munroe, I hate you. 
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
|
|
|
|
|
One that scares me is this, my parents have been married 50 years! Well that's not the scary part, THIS is the scary part - their wedding happened closer to WWI then to the present day. 
|
|
|
|
|
Mine as well, what is going on. I thought I was young, until I noticed a couple police orficers last week, I swear one of them was 12. I am turning into my Dad!!! 
|
|
|
|
|
glennPattonWork wrote: I swear one of them was 12. I am turning into my Dad!
Stop dancing.
Now.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
|
|
|
|
|
I'm not old.
My parents are old, and I'm still younger than them.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
|
|
|
|
|
Try this. Lad across the road was getting his kids ready for school before going off to work himself and I stopped to say good morning as the children are the same age as my younger. He drives a van sign written with the name of a company I worked for back before steam. Does he know the boss? Yes, he's the boss's son.
... and ...
I also used to babysit him and his brothers when they were babies.
|
|
|
|
|
Funny 
Also hitting shift + A changes the screentip
|
|
|
|
|
Blast your eyes 
|
|
|
|
|
Hi All,
Silly really, here I am waiting for the "Well we appreciate your efforts, don't let door hit you on the way out" speech (all the while finding bits I have brought in that are mine! USB converters, Books, spare shoes, coffee mug etc.). It's just the waiting that gets to me! Do I push it with them (it's a sunny day...  want to work on my Tan!)
Glenn
|
|
|
|
|
Get your stuff. Get out. Forget that talk. The ones behind can switch the lights off.
Life is too shor
|
|
|
|
|
Don't give up! Maybe it's on your doorstep but just got hit by the door.
Don't mind those people who say you're not HOT. At least you know you're COOL.
I'm not afraid of falling, I'm afraid of the sudden stop at the end of the fall! - Richard Andrew x64
|
|
|
|
|
Nope. Let them make the move - in the meantime they are paying you, and getting guilty about letting you go in a bad climate - which could push the redundancy money up, even a little.
And the more they pay you to turn up each day, that's another day you aren't spending redundancy money / savings and looking for a job.
If you think about it this way, they are paying you to find another job, and providing office supplies while you do it!
BTW: if "the hammer hasn't fallen" today, take the more expensive bits of your personal kit home tonight. I had one employer who went through my desk over the weekend after I handed in my notice and took everything valuable away - including the copy of Visual Studio I had paid for because he was too tight to upgrade...and also changed the access code number for the building to make life difficult for me.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
|
|
|
|
|
Already ahead of you there, since the 'plank' meeting I have been moving some of my more useful stuff (that is mine) home. I only really have some old software books (VC++6 & VB6) & some TI training notes. I think the most important thing is my "13.56MHz Training Course" stuff (they didn't pay for it, a previous employer did (he wrote part of the course) and an A4 folder of stuff I have done that relates to interfacing! 
|
|
|
|
|
General 
News 
Suggestion 
Question 
Bug 
Answer 
Joke 
Praise 
Rant 
Admin 
Submit an article or tip
