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Maximilien wrote: Aren't they supposed to advertised this...
This seemed like a dramatically premature announcement to me. Very few details provided... I'm not sure why they even held an event.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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Students in Hong Kong protesting! People in the mainland claiming they are not aware or the protest is far fetched! Hmm! 
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Everyone who wants to know knows, don't worry.
The general thoughts on the protest are along the lines of "what a bunch of idiots! Whoever they get in their government will be politicians, and there's not one of those people you can trust!"
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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It's not that far-fetched.
I was listening to Radio 4 on the way home this evening and they were interviewing a young woman, on her way home from work, who knew nothing about it until a bus driver told her she would not be able to get past the protests.
Bear in mind this is a woman living in Hong Kong who had not heard of the protests until a bus driver informed her of the road blocks.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
modified 30-Sep-14 14:02pm.
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I strolled straight into the middle of riots that had been going on for almost a whole day, a few years back.
In Birmingham.
Not everyone sits in front of the TV watching the news, all day.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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After 45 minutes of media, children's grades, sleep, social skills, and emotional balance start to decline. After four hours, only 1% of children in middle school receive A's in mathematics and English Language Arts. [^]
The Chicago Tribune's reportage included these stimulating factoids:
Parents who took part in the study reported their children used media for an average of 90 to 120 minutes per day.
"Yet when asked specific questions about the devices, the total was commonly between six and eight hours per day," write the authors.
The American Academy of Pediatrics says children spend an average of seven hours a day "on entertainment media, including televisions, computers, phones and other electronics." [^]
Not surprisingly, the "Family Habits" study a recent, and massive (plus 20K ... 50K ? ... respondents), survey of what parents report as their children's use of media correlated with "grades, sociability, and emotional well-being," ... edit  ... offers further conclusive evidence that children are essentially an evil, but necessary, phase of human life ... ... end edit ... [1]
The Family Habits study site: [^]. "Results" summarized on that site: >[^].
As a former evil child myself, who grew up without television, but with my ears glued to a big radio-cabinet, listening to series like "The Shadow," I can only imagine the opportunities for creative mayhem and deviance I missed because I lived in this little all-WASP-white cocoon of post Korean war all-electric-kitchen nuclear-fallout-shelter middle-class America.
I had to take refuge in joining the math/short-wave radio geeks in my high-school, but I was a second-class member because I did not wear a pocket-protector, or a slide-rule in a case hanging off my belt.
I did, however, assist Michael Scott (future President of Apple Computer) in testing a "rocket motor" he designed that blew-up, sending two steel road-repair plates we had "borrowed" fifteen feet in the air over our test-pit, and destroying windows in several nearby houses, summoning the police. One neighbor ran from her house screaming: "We don't want another Einstein around here." This was in about 1959, I think.
If I were a parent, with young children, I probably would think seriously about the "Family Habit" study for about five minutes, and then strap my kids into restraining harnesses with the only things being in reach being water, manila paper, and crayons.
[1] content between two WTF icons is intended to be either self-referential, ironic, facetious, or an egregious misrepresentation emanating from the unpredictably demonic human nature of the writer
« I had therefore to remove knowledge, in order to make room for belief » Immanuel Kant
modified 30-Sep-14 14:05pm.
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I hardly ever turn on the TV and only watch a few shows with my wife. The rest of the time I prefer listening to radio, although shortwave radio has certainly declined over the last half century.
I also built rockets, built and fixed radios, read a lot and was a general nerd in high school. Still am, in fact.
With my own children, I noticed that TV was becoming an addiction. Finally I cut, not just disconnected, the cable and made them go out and play, read a book, anything other than TV. For several hours they sat and watched the noise of no signal before they finally accepted that there would be no TV. Then they learned to do things!
Finally after a couple of months, I connected the cable again, but didn't tell them. It took another month for them to try turning on the box, but they never went back to the previous mind numbing zombie state.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E.
Comport Computing
Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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Hope that's more than a "partial remission," Walt !
cheers, Bill
« I had therefore to remove knowledge, in order to make room for belief » Immanuel Kant
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I think my children safe - for a certain level...
We have no TV. We pick up movies by hand, to fit them to our children. There is only one movie in a week.
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
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Correlation / Causation
Any parent that uses "media" as a baby sitter is probably lacking in many, MANY ways starting from infancy. Its a good bet that without "media" these kids are out getting into trouble and not learning anyway. In other words, its not the "media" causing the problem - its crappy parenting.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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Beat me to it. 
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Indeed, Mike, please see my response to Jorgen below. Another case where a special icon, or font color, for ironic exaggeration would be useful in Lounge posts 
I suspect that if one reads the book on the study, and examines the methodology, and researcher assumptions, that one would not find the researchers are not claiming causality, either: that, of course, is a hypothesis.
Consider the researchers definition of "Family Time:" "The overall effect between time a family spends together and the amount of media consumption a child has and the degree of emotional problems a child exhibits."
cheers, Bill
« I had therefore to remove knowledge, in order to make room for belief » Immanuel Kant
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Mike Mullikin wrote: Its a good bet that without "media" these kids are out getting into trouble and not learning anyway.
With older kids I'm sure that is true, but with younger kids, getting out and getting into "trouble" is probably better for them than doing "educational" activities, and much better than sitting passive in front of a screen.
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Andy Brummer wrote: but with younger kids, getting out and getting into "trouble" is probably better for them than doing "educational" activities, and much better than sitting passive in front of a screen.
Ummmm... roaming unsupervised outside the home, maybe playing in traffic, getting into vans with strange men, etc... because honestly, that's what we're talking about here. If a parent can't be bothered with actually interacting with their child so they park them in front of the TV do you actually think they adequately supervise them outside?
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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Ok, if those are the only possible options, I'd be an ogre to suggest those kids did anything other than watch TV all the time.
I let my kids have almost free reign over the back yard when they were 2, and let my 7 year old watch my 3 year old in the front yard for limited time. Essentially as soon as they could manage to stay off the street. I also encourage them to use their judgement in saying hi to all the neighbors walking by.
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Andy Brummer wrote: Ok, if those are the only possible options, I'd be an ogre to suggest those kids did anything other than watch TV all the time.
That's not what I meant. I'm not suggesting that sitting in front of a TV is good. I simply stated that parents that use the TV as a babysitter probably won't supervise those kids in any event so sending them outside unsupervised may not be any better.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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I'm pretty sure you're aware of the saying that correlation does not imply causation.
Here's my theory: It's not about allowing your kids to watch tv or not, it's about activating them so much that they don't need it. Or putting it differently, parents that care for their children gets brighter children. And the ones that doesn't have the energy or time to give a sh*t, gets dumber children. The tv is used as a parking place.
So drop the harnesses, but keep the crayons and the paper.
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Hi Jorgen,
Well, I hoped my facetious/ridiculous remark: "offers further conclusive evidence that children are essentially an evil, but necessary, phase of human life" would have clued readers in that I don't necessarily buy that media usage is the cause of whatever.
Fortunately (for children), I don't have any (children), but I am certain that if I did they would need restraining harnesses; of course, that conclusion is a hypothesis based only on my own childhood
cheers, Bill
« I had therefore to remove knowledge, in order to make room for belief » Immanuel Kant
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But it's not exactly news, is it?
We've all known for years that the average couch potato is as good as brain dead -- anyone not convinced of that only has to spend half an hour browsing through imdb.com.
Entertainment supplants all other mental exercises, because the spud gets all the feelings of achievement he needs just from having watched something or played something. I don't know why anyone would think that that didn't apply to kids.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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It's not surprising to me, and all these things and more are why I got rid of all the TVs in my house as soon as I had kids. Kids need to get bored, that's probably one of the worst effects of passive screen watching. Kids don't have to invent their own fun, it's just there prepackaged for them.
BillWoodruff wrote: I did, however, assist Michael Scott (future President of Apple Computer) in testing a "rocket motor" he designed that blew-up, sending two steel road-repair plates we had "borrowed" fifteen feet in the air over our test-pit, and destroying windows in several nearby houses, summoning the police.
Sounds like that must have been fun.
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BillWoodruff wrote: I did, however, assist Michael Scott (future President of Apple Computer) in testing a "rocket motor" he designed that blew-up,
Those were the days! My neighborhood had no celebrities, so I had to entertain myself raising naughas in the garage.
Will Rogers never met me.
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I remember when I was a kid and the older generations moaned about how MTV was ruining our imaginations and ability to appreciate music, and video games were rotting our brains, as if video screens would turn us into mindless vegetables. Oh, and they had studies too.
In actual fact, things like MTV and video games influenced a lot of kids to become film makers, engineers, graphic artists, etc. Some veggies resulted to be sure, but I suspect that's more nature than nurture.
Socrates lamented widespread literacy in his day, believing that people would no longer be able to remember anything because they could simply write things down and read them later, and now we hear similar complaints about Google. Kids playing with smartphones, tablets, and game consoles aren't just vegging out, their brains are engaged and they are learning skills that will likely serve them well. They're learning to navigate the future, remember that when you need your kid's help with some new gadget
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Quote: and destroying wWindows in several nearby houses
- sounds like a portent of the future?
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
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This is not even a joke. They look like naked mole rats.
Now stop inviting me to look at your ugly spawn - it's not "the cutest baby ever", I promise you. I've seen one, so I've seen them all.
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