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Urghh.. was hoping to avoid the meeja, espcially the likes of the Guardian, Torygraph, In(the EU)dependent, DM, etc. 
One week a place can be the best place on earth, the next week the same place is awful. It's the extreme polarised views from the meeja and the interwebs that's led me to ask people here 
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Forget Europe. The north, where there is some work, is as wet as the UK, the south is in the third world when it comes to IT.
The US? If you like life cheap and cheerful then sure, California is the place. Good sun, good skiing, crap sea though, its glacial.
Canada? If good weather is 6 months below zero then OK.
NZ? Is there any IT work there?
Sydney, Australia. Probably your best bet, that is if the Chinese slow down doesn't cripple their economy too much. But its got skiing, sun, countryside, a great city, good food.
Singapore perhaps if you are in banking?
However, if you can get work in or around Barcelona then its a great place. Europes hidden gem. Great coast, skiing on your door step. Like the Cote d'Azur in France, but a third the price. Talking of which, Sophia and Valbonne in the south of France is the one place there is an IT hot spot. The rest sucks. Low wages, utter crap.
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Munchies_Matt wrote: the south is in the third world when it comes to IT.
The truth, it hurts 
Geek code v 3.12 {
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- r++>+++ y+++*
Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
}
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
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I live in the south of france, have done for a long time, and spend most of my time contracting in northern Europe.... and missing my family. But that's the f***ing stupid sh*tty choice we made!
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I live in the north of Italy (in Piedmont, adjoining France, by the way) and luckily I work for Food & Beverage customers and we provide automated QA inspection machinery, so I do not properly work in the IT field despite being a programmer.
There weren't many other choices anyway... mainly "startups", which seems it is the new term for "playground funded with Dad's remaining money that will ultimately crumble to dust for its debts".
Geek code v 3.12 {
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- r++>+++ y+++*
Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
}
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
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Munchies_Matt wrote: The US? If you like life cheap and cheerful then sure, California is the place.
I think for the US (and access to sea and hills/mountains) it'd probably have to be California. Not sure what area though?
Canada - I'm guessing Totonto would be the natural choice, but don't know much about how things are there, or if it's easy to get out and do things. The cold isn't too much of an issue if winter sports are on the cards
NZ - I've seen a few companies. IT/software are on their list of upcoming industries/skills in need and the outdoor opportunities are a big plus.
Aus - seems popular, but is it getting too popular?
At the moment I'm a contractor, current assignment is in finance but I'd prefer to be doing something else after this stint's up
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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California? I guess in certain places, the place is falling apart and has been for some time. Can't complain about the weather if you are close enough to the coast. Other than that, most of the state is semi-arid to arid.
A lot of California moved to Arizona (lived in Tucson in the early 80s), and it's a crime what they did to a perfectly good desert state. The bumper sticker at the time was "Don't Californicate Arizona". The same thing happened to Colorado and is now happening to Texas, but there are a lot more Texans, so I have hope for the Lone Star State.
I have clients in California, so most of the time I go there its on business. It's nice, if you can afford to live there. It sounds like you are more into a life style change rather than a career expanding move. That usually points you away from the hot spots of development (Silicon Valley, New York, Boston - all high cost of living or long commutes). Sounds like what you are looking for is a 4 season climate, relative short drives?
Best of luck on your search.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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Well i was only thinking California because of the companies around SF (I don't imagine getting into Google or the like, but there are probably a lot of smaller tech firms around?)..
charlieg wrote: Sounds like what you are looking for is a 4 season climate, relative short drives?
Yep, pretty much. Somewhere nice/safe to bring up a family, things to do outdoors, that kind of thing. Is there anywhere like that in the US?
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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All over the place. Most of the US is empty. 
You've just described small town Americana. The areas of the country vary so widely, it would be like a kid in the candy shop. Sounds like you are a lot like me, I'm north of Atlanta, close to the Appalachians (about an hour). I'd call it 3 1/2 seasons, as we normally don't get a lot of snow/ice. How we react to snow/ice is legendary insanity.  The entire Atlanta area is a changing mix of demographics. So many people have moved here from the north. I'm blessed with having a commute time of between 1 and 20 minutes. 1 min if I work at home, 20 if I drive local streets to my customer's plant.
Now, if you were to buy in one place and work in another, you would have to factor in commute times. For example, if I had to work midtown, I would just plan on leaving for work well before 6am. It would be a 30 minute drive but freeway speeds.
I'm not pushing Atlanta by any means. I'd buy an Atlas and start studying. I grew up in North Carolina, just up the road. If I had a dream place, it would be near the coast (I love to sail). If you can keep your expenses down (like not needing a 400K house), there are jobs all over the place.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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Yeah, I'm not really a city guy but don't mind living within commutable distance
It's just a case of getting to grips with which areas are good or bad, in terms of work and general lifestyle.
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Brent Jenkins wrote: Somewhere nice/safe to bring up a family, things to do outdoors, that kind of thing. Is there anywhere like that in the US?
I haven't lived there myself, but North Carolina might be a good place to look. There's several good cities to live in and a decent amount of tech jobs sprouting up due to the presence of some highly ranked universities (Duke, UNC).
You've got the coast on the east side, and the Appalachian Mountains on the west side.
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde
Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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Thanks, I'll take a look - charlieg mentioned Atlanta and North Carolina too link[^]
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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In California you want to be in the San Francisco area, or head inland to Sacramento, state capitol and nearer the skiing/hiking/canoeing (some good rivers up near there in gold rush country).
For Canada, Toronto is a bit dull perhaps, and very flat. Very very flat. Vancouver might be better, or if you speak French with a mutant accent Quebec is probably great.
NZ would be good if you can get IT work there. Its an amazing country, one of the most beautiful. Kind of like Japan, but English speaking. And has everything.
Aus, yes, it is popular, for a reason. Its good!
Finance is a useful role though, it will take you round the world, often for the same bank. HSBC internal postings for example, probably cover most of the known world.
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Munchies_Matt wrote: Vancouver might be better
Arghh, slip of the brain, I'd meant to write Vancouver 
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Supposedly one of the most beautiful cities/settings with skiing near by.
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I resent this part "south is in the third world when it comes to IT." - true, Croatia isn't really south , but south-east, but we're still tech leaders (at least for my bank group) which includes such paragons of advanced technology as italy and austria
And there are more then 1 successful firms coming from here with million+ income thanks to games and apps in stores. Quite good for mere 4 million people (as is said for New Zealand)
Original poster: people speak passable english here and we're tourist country with good weather
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Even northern Europe is nothing compared to the UK. IT there is a big industry, there are companies everywhere.
But its good Croatia is doing well. I haven't seen any contracts over there though. Do you do much windows/linux kernel stuff?
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I'm a microsoft guy, so ... no
There is heavy recruiting for Ireland and people are leaving, going after the money. Some return complaining that money looks good on paper, but the cost of living in GB is too high But I have no personal experience.
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Sinisa Hajnal wrote: There is heavy recruiting for Ireland and people are leaving, going after the money. Some return complaining that money looks good on paper, but the cost of living in GB is too high
I'm not surprised they find the cost of living high if they're living in GB and working in Ireland.
They should try living in the same country as they work, or at least on the same island.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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Holyhead to Dub? About 40 mins isn't it?
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Aye, not too long, bloody pricey twice a day five days a week though.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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LOL, no they lived in Croatia and now live and work in Ireland. Living in England and working in Ireland seems...well...not cost effective
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IT is big in Ireland too, but its a bit of a dump with appalling weather.
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I've always quite fancied Germany, but so does everyone else on the planet right now it seems.
Culturally and meteorologically pretty similar to Britain, good beer and its one of those countries that just kinda 'works'. Also because I like the idea of living somewhere where the language isn't my native tongue, to learn a new language. I think that's something us Brits do badly.
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I'm not really considering Europe - it's too bogged down in red tape and has become a "can't do" area (this is especially apparent in the UK). There are some major economic problems right across the Eurozone and I can't see things improving any time soon 
From a development point of view, countries like the US, Canada and Australia seem a lot more dynamic at the moment.
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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