Welcome to the Lounge

charlieg17-Sep-15 4:50

17-Sep-15 4:50

good link! I'll save it.

Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...

"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759

Dave Kreskowiak17-Sep-15 3:26

17-Sep-15 3:26

Do you have X1? Most of the system is very web dependent, especially the DVR.

I just got X1 about 4 weeks ago. No problems but I also haven't tracked the data usage yet on the new system. Now you've got me curious. I used to use about 350GB a month before the switch so I have a good baseline to look at.

A guide to posting questions on CodeProject

Click this: Asking questions is a skill.
Seriously, do it.

Dave Kreskowiak

charlieg17-Sep-15 4:52

17-Sep-15 4:52

I do, and this is what Comcast "says":

Will live TV and/or XFINITY On Demand streaming on the XFINITY TV app or XFINITY TV website (xtv.comcast.net) count against my XFINITY Internet data usage threshold?

No. Live TV and select XFINITY On Demand streaming does not count against your Internet data usage threshold. Streaming XFINITY TV Go On Demand content, however, will count against your Internet data usage.

Dave Kreskowiak17-Sep-15 5:06

17-Sep-15 5:06

Yeah, that's live TV and select OnDemand streaming. You don't see a reference to DVR in there, do you? Smile | :)

Also, the last time I looked at my bill, there was a message that said the data caps we not being enforced.

A guide to posting questions on CodeProject

Click this: Asking questions is a skill.
Seriously, do it.

Dave Kreskowiak

charlieg17-Sep-15 6:25

17-Sep-15 6:25

I'll check. We use the DVR heavily but not from a remote location. The way they have our house wired - we have cable that comes to my office -> cable modem. Also cable that goes to DVR and another set top box, so cable protocol, no Ethernet.

Dave Kreskowiak17-Sep-15 6:35

17-Sep-15 6:35

When you DVR something, it's actually being recorded "in the cloud", not on your local box. Play that back and you're using data.

You'll have to verify that, but I think that's what's going on.

[EDIT]
Well, I guess I was wrong. I just found this:

Quote:
Does the functionality enabled by X1 DVR with Cloud Technology count against the XFINITY Internet data usage threshold?
Downloading and/or streaming DVR recordings, live TV or XFINITY On Demand content will not count against your Internet data usage threshold if you are connected to your in-home XFINITY network. However, if you choose to stream or download DVR recordings outside of the home, this may count against your data usage threshold.

A guide to posting questions on CodeProject

Click this: Asking questions is a skill.
Seriously, do it.

Dave Kreskowiak

modified 17-Sep-15 12:42pm.

kalberts17-Sep-15 22:22

kalberts

17-Sep-15 22:22

Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
When you DVR something, it's actually being recorded "in the cloud", not on your local box.

Is that really true? If so, that's yet another reason to shy away from cloud services.

I do NOT want anyone, neither the cable company nor authorities, to have the facilities to monitor which movies I am watching, when I watch them, and how many times I watch them. (It is bad enough with the facilites for tracing which movies I am buying! I prefer to pay for DVDs in cash, over the counter...)

I do NOT want to risk that my movies (or music or photos) suddenly becomes inaccessible because someone in the Establishment points out, say, that one of the actors has declared himself as a communist. (I do have a collection of Chaplin movies...) Or that "for the protection of the children", a photo of my baby daughter at the changing table must be removed within 48 hours, or my account will be closed down.

I DO want to have full access to my movies, music and photos even if my cable connection experiences an 'excavator error', or the switching center experiences a power down, or if the cloud server is overloaded. If I go on vacation, bringing my portable, I want to have access to music and other entertainment on the trip, even when visiting places where 'cable' is something that carries AC only and the only wireless is the AM radio.

Nowadays, the disk costs for storing a movie is in the range of ten US cents - even less if you buy an internal disk for your desktop (rather than an external disk for your portable). That gives you privacy, reliability, independence of the network, stable quality, no risk of loss due to the contents of the movies or photos. No monthly fee - those 10cents/movie is a one-time fee.

Is there any real reason for using the cloud storage for anything? I can see a single one: I handle that by keeping a duplicate of my disk(s) at the office, in case my house burns down.

So: No cloud service for me!

Dave Kreskowiak18-Sep-15 1:57

18-Sep-15 1:57

It comes in handy when your recording something and the box crashes and restarts in the middle of the recording. When the box comes back up there's no break in the recording at all.

Member 7989122 wrote:
Is there any real reason for using the cloud storage for anything?

Yeah. I save whatever I want and can access the content from anywhere and I don't have to carry around anything other than my phone.

A guide to posting questions on CodeProject

Click this: Asking questions is a skill.
Seriously, do it.

Dave Kreskowiak

charlieg18-Sep-15 6:08

18-Sep-15 6:08

Might be too late for that... data is collected so universally. Cash might work. I have a recommendation for a Voyager Air. Looks pretty slick.

kalberts20-Sep-15 10:00

kalberts

20-Sep-15 10:00

charlieg wrote:
Might be too late for that... data is collected so universally.

Toll roads give such huge discounts for those that accept being traced (that is, charged to that chip glued to your windshield), and it is so convenient just driving on board that ferry, or whatever. So they do know roughly where my car is at any time - or at least when it last passed a toll station or used a ferry. And they can roughly tell where my mobile is located.

But my mobile is a simple GSM phone - no GPS, no smartphone with apps reporting my GPS position continously. I even tend to leave my phone at home when I visit friends, or turn it completely off when I bring it for emergency use (such as on mountain hikes). I do pay in cash whenever possible, and essentially avoid discount cards from chain stores - even if you pay in cash, they make a record of your preferred toothpaste and the amount of beer you buy; I don't want them to file such data about me! I do not have any Facebook or Twitter account (nor was I in Second Life a few years ago) and avoid any discussion fora requesting more than a semi-anonoymous email address. I am right now setting up another computer that I will use for most of my writing and photo/video editing; it will be off net. The old, net connected computer will solely be used for network communication, with no private information on that machine.

When I cannot keep my location private, such as when I'm driving on toll roads, I might as well use my plastic card at the gas station; that doesn't reveal more than they already know. My employer can tell that I come to work every day, so I let my GSM tells the same. But I believe that I have managed to reduce my electronic traces to a couple magnitudes less than the typical careless, young person today.

Maybe I am paranoid. Still they might be after me...

charlieg18-Sep-15 4:50

18-Sep-15 4:50

Well, I did a test yesterday. I still have my uverse service, so I unplugged from the Comcast cable modem. Network usage dropped to zero, and that is after watching multiple recorded shows.

Rough conclusion? The dvr is not counted against your data cap.

NickPace17-Sep-15 5:24

NickPace

17-Sep-15 5:24

I currently with Comcast and my family (2 adults, 4 teenagers) consistently uses about 400 GB each month, however Comcast has never enforced their cap on us (which is only 250 GB according to my account info). Been with them a few years now and I use them for TV, internet, and phones.

Their internet speed is great compared to other alternatives I've used such as AT&T. But I've found their internet is not as reliable as I would like. It goes down about once a week (and I hear about it from everyone in the family when it happens). Usually requires me to pull the router battery and power cable to reset it.

In this age of cell phones, I've decided using Comcast for phone service is stupid, however my wife does not want to give up the "home" phone number. Sigh | :sigh:

I'm currently undecided about their TV services. I love the search feature to find shows, and the on demand services are pretty good. But the X1 platform is buggy as hell, and the DVR hardware is slow. I hate pressing a button on the remote and then waiting a couple of seconds to see if anything happens on the screen. I just don't have enough patience to use their equipment. Whoever designed their software needs to be fired before they do any more damage. Popup screens with an OK button that takes over the whole system for a couple of seconds? Seriously? Just add a status string at the bottom of the screen so I can get back to my show. The DVR freezes up often (at least once a month) and requires a "hard" boot to reset the DVR by pulling the power cable and then waiting five minutes for the damn thing to start up again. Seems like that always happens right in the middle of a sporting event I'm watching. I've talked to Comcast service a couple of times now about these issues and though they are very friendly, they are pretty much useless. Nothing has changed since I've been with them.

I'd say there's a good chance I'll be dumping Comcast when my current contract is up. But who to switch to? I've been with AT&T, DirectTV, and DishNet. They all suck...that's why I keep switching. I've just about decided to switch to a local company for my internet, dump the internet phones (she'll get over it), and go to on demand services for TV (AppleTV or Amazon Fire or something similar). I'll miss my sports but some of those are on demand now and more will be that way in the future. One thing for sure, no more contracts. I'm sick of those.

-NP

Never underestimate the creativity of the end-user.

charlieg17-Sep-15 9:32

17-Sep-15 9:32

I haven't seen any reliability issues yet. And I have the same issue with cutting the land line - we use ooma now. $120 or so buy in, $4/month taxes and fees. For the 5 calls we get / day, it's about the right price.

TV services - I'm waiting for the breakup of the packages. If Netflix and the other companies keep rolling out their own material, it may happen sooner. I only watch maybe 6 shows other than an occasional movie, I'm tired of subsidizing all of the other garbage out there.

W∴ Balboos, GHB17-Sep-15 5:40

W∴ Balboos, GHB

17-Sep-15 5:40

Roku Warning: it can accidentally be left streaming whilst you aren't watching anything. Happens at home, although rarely.

Solutions for that: one Roku is in an energy saver power strip which has a master/slave relationship with several of the sockets. If TV off, Roku is powered off in about 30 sec.

I'm planning on doing the same for the other as it was on all day, no one home, on Tuesday.

Fortunately (for now) my ISP, CableVision, doesn't meter usage at this time. Possibly with ulterior motives, they're actually advertising to cable-cutters even though the supply telephone & cable TV along with internet. They do not have any kind of contracts.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein

"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert

"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010

charlieg17-Sep-15 6:27

17-Sep-15 6:27

Good point about roku. But I know that mac address, and there is nothing going there. Might be I need to set up that suggested proxy server just to see who is using what.

Hooga Booga18-Sep-15 4:48

Hooga Booga

18-Sep-15 4:48

One way to get attention is to say you will begin legal action. I developed software for a call center here in Canada. As soon as legal action was mentioned, the issue was immediately moved up the chain to people who would listen. Who knows, it might really be a case for legal action.

Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -- Groucho Marx

charlieg18-Sep-15 6:18

18-Sep-15 6:18

Well, so far it's a matter of whose data do you believe? I don't have enough yet in my arsenal to nuke them. But I'm working on it. Besides, it's a good exercise in technical skill development.

bytejockey18-Sep-15 4:58

bytejockey

18-Sep-15 4:58

I have the same provider and have been able to track and manage usage by installing software at the router. I'm using Gargoyle router management software https://www.gargoyle-router.com. If you have a compatible router, I'd suggest trying that. The software not only measures usage, but allows setting of quotas for usage. The usage totals from Gargoyle are within a couple of percent of those from the ISP, as there is some traffic that hits the modem that does not make it to the router (filtered at the modem).

charlieg18-Sep-15 6:19

18-Sep-15 6:19

I've been hesitant to flash my router, but I may do so. No guts, no glory. I just don't want a brick.

Denis A. Stoyanov18-Sep-15 5:16

Denis A. Stoyanov

18-Sep-15 5:16

Why don't you just hit them with consumer complaint and technical literate lawyer? 800 GB per month is a lot. I mean a lot... I've been downloading torrents for since 2007 and I've downloaded a lot... Really a lot. From the same tracker... My bandwidth with the tracker is almost 4 TB. That is for 8 years... Your family/users can be 5-10 people at the same router but 800 gigabytes is really a lot of info to be streamed/downloaded/pulled or whatever.

charlieg18-Sep-15 6:20

18-Sep-15 6:20

You've just touched on the infuriating part. I was discussing this with "a" tech. I have no idea what his qualifications were, he's probably just looking at a web site fed by some internal system. I pointed out that we weren't just a little over, but an absurd amount that would make me question the sanity of his #s.

patbob18-Sep-15 5:21

patbob

18-Sep-15 5:21

Maybe they're using your data for you by making WiFi available to their other customers through your router? An example article about the issue: Comcast Was Sued For Quietly Turning Customers' Home WiFi Into "Public" Hotspots[^]. As I recall from when this broke, they're not supposed to be tagging that data usage onto your bill, but maybe they are.

If you can get daily data usage results, unplug everything from their line for a day and see if they're still claiming data usage on your line. If so, then fight, fight, fight, or switch.

We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.

charlieg18-Sep-15 6:24

18-Sep-15 6:24

At what point would you get a sick feeling at this dirty trick? Wow. The good news is that I refused their box and have my own. So I think we're okay there.

"unplug"

I did this yesterday morning. Usage dropped to zero. Going to start adding stuff back in. No heavy users are in the house. 16 yo returns home from a school outing at 1, the 13 yo youtube fanatic is home at 3. So far, very little usage.

patbob18-Sep-15 6:57

patbob

18-Sep-15 6:57

charlieg wrote:
The good news is that I refused their box and have my own. So I think we're okay there

This is hypothetical since your usage suggests this isn't what's happening, but... maybe, maybe not. Think it through -- how do they set up gobs of routers like that? Not manually, so by script. It'd have to recognize multiple types of routers and probably automatically configure every new router added to their system. How's it going to do that from the public WAN side? Via a hardcoded backdoor or via a backdoor into the cloud management service. You still sure its impossible for them to configure the router hardware you bought?

Your best bet may be to do as that article suggests -- disable the WiFi on the router and use a separate access point device that is connected downstream of your router. Still no guarantee that they don't scan your internal network to find and configure it through, but they're probably not that sophisticated yet. If you're worried, load one of the open source router firmware loads onto it.

"usage"

Maybe one of your kid's computers is infected and being used as a torrent server without their knowledge. Might be worthwhile turning them on one at a time before the kids get home and start using data to see if usage jumps.

We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.

charlieg18-Sep-15 8:03