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Rob Grainger wrote: It doesn't really matter the cause
It does when fake science is used to put bs political policies in place.
Rob Grainger wrote: conspiracy from climate scientists
Conspiracy? Who said that? It's just basically self-serving fudging to satisfy who pays their salaries.
Rob Grainger wrote: fuel industry
Same thing. Scientists fudging things to fit the needs of who pays them.
Rob Grainger wrote: obfuscate evidence in their own interest
Done on both sides.
Rob Grainger wrote: life style
I drive a 100% electric vehicle. Thank you very much.
Rob Grainger wrote: keep your head in the sand
I like honesty and forthrightness and thinking for myself.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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Exactly the rabbit-hole I was expecting this discussion to fall into. 
I must be psychic.
TTFN - Kent
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Glad to have obliged.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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Absolutely agree with you on that, and the replication study[^] does as well.
I actually regret posting that news item, as I realized it might be fodder for political discussion. Especially of a particular topic that is agreed on by scientists, but not by a large, vocal segment of the population. But, mistakes will be made (plus, it seemed a really, really slow news day).
TTFN - Kent
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Kent Sharkey wrote: agreed on by some scientists
FTFY.  Some of whom used to agree, but now do not.
And scientists also used to agree on many other things that later turned-out to be false. So, science-by-consensus is a bad way to do science.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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cigarettes company alway pay them to say sh*t
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scientists always "find" what their paychecks tell them to.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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Consensus is the way much of science is done. For anything that cannot be directly measured/replicated, you need a theory that explains the phenomena. There can be multiple valid theory that apply to current data. These eventually converge as a consensus begins to view one theory as the best/most parsimonious. As more data comes in, this can change the consensus, but that doesn't completely invalidate the process.
Yes, phlogiston/Lamarckism/the Bohr model of the atom etc. aren't currently viewed as correct. However, based on the data available at the time, they seemed accurate.
TTFN - Kent
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Kent Sharkey wrote: Consensus is the way much of science is done
Yes, but it's a consensus of data and evidence, not opinion. Like you said:
Kent Sharkey wrote: based on the data available at the time, they seemed accurate
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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97% of climate change scientists is pretty freaking overwhelming.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough."
Alan Kay.
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Rob Grainger wrote: 97% of climate change scientists
If you read the research, it's not 97% of climate scientists, it's 97% of climate research papers. And the so-called study that determined that 97% figure used questionable methodologies. Many of the scientists whose papers were counted as being among the "97%" objected, yet their papers were not removed. Other much more rigorous studies have come up with much smaller figures than the one you quote.
And there is no such thing as a "climate change scientist" or even a "climate scientist".
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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Rob Grainger wrote: Scientific opinion on climate change
Hmm, not scientific evidence or scientific evidence based conclusion. Hmmm
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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The tobacco lobby said similar things for years. Actual evidence in most science is rare. Science typically proceeds with a best theory that fits the evidence, that may be disproved when evidence is found that disagrees. Currently the best theory is that current client change is caused by human activity, hence consensus. You seem to have difficultly with the scientific method itself. Proofs generally only occur in mathematics, not science.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough."
Alan Kay.
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Rob Grainger wrote: Science typically proceeds with a best theory that fits the evidence
That is true in most cases. Sometimes it depends on who is presenting the theory. And it's also true that in any human endeavor where there are two or more people politics plays a role. And in this case there is a lot of outside (the scientific community) pressure to provide a theory that fits the environmental lobby cause.
Rob Grainger wrote: the best theory is that current client change is caused by human activity
It's not the best theory.
Rob Grainger wrote: You seem to have difficultly with the scientific method itself
Not at all. I have a problem with politically driven "science" that falsifies and fudges data, ignores contra evidence, and uses emotional argumentation.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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Kent Sharkey wrote: plus, it seemed a really, really slow news day
Well, locally this[^] happened a couple hours south of where I live, I've driven over that bridge many a time.
And tech like this[^] shouldn't be overlooked.
But then again, neither of those are directly related to programming. 
Marc
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I've been in academia for decades and have played all roles in the publishing process. There is more incompetence than malice.
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Agreed - as Feynman said:Quote: The first principle is that you must not fool yourself – and you are the easiest person to fool.
TTFN - Kent
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True. But in this case, I observe more mediocrity than deviousness.
I recently attended to yet another conference. Most presentations were inane. The researchers were doing their best and their best was nothing remarkable. Having said this, the work of some was interesting and the work of few had potential. I cannot say that I met a single liar.
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And people just trying to keep their jobs and "get ahead". Nothing "malicious" about that. Self-serving lying is the hallmark of incompetence. Just witness any nations politics.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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Why did an alleged article on academic papers suddenly take a turn to politics? Or was that really the point? (Hence, in a perverse way, making the same point.)
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Joe Woodbury wrote: making the same point
Exactly. You got it.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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I had hoped it wouldn't. Sadly, I was wrong. I keep forgetting some of the folken around here.
TTFN - Kent
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A kind word seems to be the most important thing for employees nowadays – far more important than compensation. Those are the results of a new study by Appirio, a global services company helping customers create next-generation Worker and Customer Experiences through cloud tech. But cash is pretty nice
I would have gone with the Flying Lizards, but I used it fairly recently.
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I mostly agree, especially if that is done publicly and through action followup: bonus or pay raise.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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