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Bloody hell I just wanted a dust gun to pop the screens of the distracted. Scaring the crap out of them would be infinitely more satisfying.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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Hi All,
I know this is outside most, but not all users but which PCB layout tools does the hive mind recommend.
I would like to use Altium DXP but cost is the main concern and for the PCB's we will be laying out it's Guided missile to a duck hunt (read for $$ reasons). Fritzing the Ardrino favored tool is being looked at as well as another TK something that has been used before, for the cost as cheap as poss (free, shareware if possible). Yes it is time for faffing...
KI Cad not TK...
modified 13-Oct-16 11:43am.
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do it old school: graph paper and pencil
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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Send that to the PCB manufacturers and just wait to see what size of quote you get back! 
If it ain't Gerber ...
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Who needs them? If you want to have it oldschool, then do the cutting, etching and drilling yourself. You even get to inhale a healthy dose of epoxy dust. 
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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Hah! Wirewrap the bugger!
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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I was working on a modernized version of my old computer, remember? I have the basic computer and the memory (up to 16 megabytes for the old dog ) ready. Now I'm not sure wether I should first build a prototype on perfboard bfore I have a buggy PCB made.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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Go straight to 2 layer - the bugs in your design can be fixed with judicious cut and wire, and you don't get the loose connections and crosstalk that make life such a PITA...
I've played those games, and it's a lot cheaper and less stress to go to straight to PCB even if you know you're going to bin it fairly quickly. Just socket everything and life gets pretty sweet!
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Ok, I'm convinced. I made some changes in the PCB layout and over the weekend I will check wether the Sub-D connector will fit, wether I can replace the EPROM by a compatible EEPROM, recheck the clock and baudrate generator and memory addressing and then let's hope for the best.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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Done that, Wirewrap is easier to debug if (when) you make a boob 
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Ish. It also causes a pile of problems all of it's own, what with fallen off wires, dodgy connections, crosstalk, ...
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Breadboards are very noisy. If possible, test your design at a very low clock frequency and even then noise can still cause glitches. With an oscilloscope you can see errors of that kind quite well. Even under good circumstances you can hardly expect to see a nice square signal.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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I have found breadboard and strip board a good antenna for picking up long wave radio... 
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Not if you encase the pin in solder, but then you loose the ability to swap around, what I have done in that situation is test everything and if I can't see a problem get busy with the soldering iron!
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That is called "makin' Pappys way", I have done that in my garage, I have a feeling it would an 'elf & safety' violation to do it on company premises...
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That's too comfortable. Use an acid proof pen and draw your pads and traces directly onto the copper.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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Done that too! Back in the day...
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I wanted until I saw the performance it is to export gerber files 
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I have not used it myself, but this one[^] has been recommended to me.
Thee is a free version that is limited to 250 pins or soldering pads and only two layers.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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Cheers! ![Beer | [beer]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/beer.gif)
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Way back long ago I worked at a PCB development company. Amongst the things, even back in the 1980's that was important is that boards are typically multi-layer. This allows smaller and more complex circuitry. Possibly more than you need worry about, but this type of planning, topographic layering, in some ways simplifies the design (no need to have weird routes as "wires" can cross without touching), but could increase the cost of the software.
Note that plating through the whole was an important part of these designs - so that when those wires cross and you want them to meet at a connection (drill hole) they do.
At that time, the company even had a machine that drew with wire as an alternative to the etching process - and since the wire was insulated, they needn't worry about crossing lines unless they wanted them to connect (drill, plate-through).
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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This I have used a really long time ago.
Easy-PC PCB Design Software by Number One Systems[^]
At the time it had no auto-routing but was the only affordable one I knew of. Not too bad for the price but I've no idea how it is now.
Protel (I see they changed their name) was really good, during the 1 month trial. Was $5000 then...
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Altium DXP would be my choice, but KI Cad I have tried it seems usable. Protel is/was good but expensive, I still get cold sweats from using it at Uni. It was the DOS version where you could assign your own short cuts, I rarely did so hitting F1 could do anything! 
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I use Altium myself and can highly recommend it. Eagle cad is quite popular with the DIY/Arduino crowd.
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