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Or something like MS Access with VBA! It has been good to me.
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I hear you. Access is one of the best RAD tools around. Nothing beats it for one-off projects and I use it as a friendlier UI for SQL Server than SSMS. E.g., it is a breeze to link databases from different servers compared to the contorted SSMS procedure.
Bud Staniek
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Just come to the world of industrial machines and robots...
We are always years away from what is being used nowadays...
OOP is the new thing in PLC programming... 
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Joan M wrote: OOP
Ooooooooh... shiny! Can I use code wider than 80 chars? Huh? Huh? Can I? Can I?
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: Can I use code wider than 80 72 chars?
Gotta have a sequence number, buddy.
It has been known for some ijit Junior Programmer to empty an entire tray of cards onto the floor. 
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Rhetorical question: how the h*** do you do OOP in plc code? 
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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The most normal question is: OOP? What is that? We program using lines and boxes which is the best for everything, even if we can't move the code between PLC brands and/or series...
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Way back when, I was a Professor of Computer Science (mid-eighties) and I thought I might know as much as 85% of what there was to know about computers and software - and I was upset about not knowing the other 15%.
Nowadays I think I know about 0.0085% of what there is and falling behind about 0.001% per week - and am happy not knowing all the rest!
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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Amen to that brother. It's a good trade off too. For that trade we keep our sanity.
Jeremy Falcon
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Wise choice bro. I might have gone insane if I forced myself to learn all these AngularJs, BackboneJs, EmberJs, WEb Toolkit, jQuery, MooTools, React, OpenUI5, Smart Client, UnifiedJs, VueJs, and Webix.
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Just stay with:
_start:
mov edx,len
mov ecx,msg
mov ebx,1
mov eax,4
int 0x80
Works for me! 
User: Technical term used by developers. See Idiot.
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Wow, you're using 32-bit registers now... high tech bro. 
Jeremy Falcon
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That won't work on Linux
We can’t stop here, this is bat country - Hunter S Thompson RIP
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Some of my coworkers are in their 60s and can debug any problem like it's nobody's business, because they learned low-level skills that have followed them throughout their entire careers. They have inner-working understanding the n00bs can only dream of.
These days there's too many people in this field who'd have to resort to calling their IT support department because you disconnected their keyboard while they were away at lunch time. The framework, library, or language of the day they were experts at 3 years ago is useless today, and their skillset simply can't be adapted to new environments/situations. Those who are worth keeping around in the long term are few and far in-between--that's why there's so many job-hoppers.
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Totally agree man. Gotta know the basics and have a strong foundation with just about anything in life you want to be good at.
Jeremy Falcon
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Unfortunately a lot of that useful knowledge that's indicative of a serious programmer gets drowned out in today's application process. I applied for what was described as a senior position a couple months back with a local government bureau. An actual part of the interview I remember:
Them: "So what's an interface?"
Me: "A contract. It specifies a minimum requirement without specifying a concrete implementation. Kinda like 'I don't care what object you are, as long as you can do X, Y, and Z we're good.'"
Them: "What's a WHERE clause?"
Me: "A predicate to filter SELECT results."
Them: "Ok, any questions for us?"
Me: "No questions about design patterns, architecture, query optimization, PK/FK decisions, index clustering, version control, deployment, etc?"
Them: *Look at each other* "No."
I never heard back  I think I'm just terrible at interviews 
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Were you being interviewed by HR people, or actual developers? If the latter, I suspect they immediately understood you were going to make them look bad.
It's probably just as well you didn't hear back from them. In hindsight, perhaps the question you should've asked them is how they managed to get their jobs... 
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I got the impression one person was definitely HR and one probably a developer. The third person I honestly couldn't place as he didn't say much beyond the greeting. I was just kinda dumbfounded. If I was hiring a carpenter to build a house I wouldn't ask him "Do you know what a hammer is? What about wood? Alright, that's all I need."
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Debugging and testing are the most valuable skills, and they're seldom taught.
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dandy72 wrote: These days there's too many people in this field who'd have to resort to calling their IT support department because you disconnected their keyboard while they were away at lunch time.
With a vast array of desirable business technology needs people specialize. Just as long ago the person that built a log cabin could dig the outhouse latrine but today I do not expect the cable guy to fix my toilet.
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While I agree with your assertion in the general sense, are you saying it's ok for people to never try to do anything, ever, that deviates from the only script they've learned to follow? If that's the case, then the automation revolution can't get here fast enough, because clearly nothing of value will be lost.
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dandy72 wrote: are you saying it's ok for people to never try to do anything, ever
No.
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: you learn X, Y, and Z.
I wasn't there either, but if I understand correctly, you didn't learn all three.
You picked your career path and then learned COBOL or FORTRAN or ASSEMBLY.
Or, you learned Pascal and BASIC and hoped to get a job teaching.
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Or Algol. There's a good chance if you were a programmer in the 60s you'd be exposed to Algol.
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You say that like it is some form of harmful radiation. I like. 
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