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CodeWraith wrote: Sory,
Thanks for the apology. But, it's ok.
I've been on the Internet / Web for a long time so negative comments don't bother me.
If you notice there is an equal amount of hate and love for every idea that is on the Web so opinions are really very meaningless.
If you like it, use it. If not, no worries.
Blithely, I roll on. 
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raddevus wrote: hate and love
I'm a CodeWraith, not a Sith Lord. Just tell me why anybody would use something like JavaScript and the whole baggage that's tied to its tail for desktop applications? Is it because every problem looks like a nail to someone with a hammer? Masochism? Would it be too little of a challenge if you used something else?
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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Well, I've actually developed C'YaPass as (all links are GitHub repos where I provide Open Source):
1. native Android via Java [^]
2. native Android via Kotlin[^]
3. native iOS via Swift[^]
4. native WinForms [^] app via .NET Windows Forms ala Visual Studio
5. UWP [^] (but kind of gave up)
6. HTML5 (Canvas), JavaScript, Bootstrap (web app[^])
So because I had already built it using HTML5 / JavaScript / Bootstrap I was very interested in if it were possible to run it as a "native" desktop app on multiple platforms via Electron so it was a great learning experience. Also, I think that OSes are now Commodities so it would be cool to "write an app once and have it run anywhere". But that's an old dream of everyone. 
It's all about learning for me and about really determining if Cross-Platform is a realistic thing.
Also, I would write it as a native Linux app, but I don't have the UI skills there -- probably need Qt or some such.
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I reached that almost by accident. I really intended to port the applications to different UIs. It started out as ASP.Net Web Forms, was ported to WinForms, then WPF and last my own UI that runs in a 3D engine. By that last step I also got Linux (via MONO) and MacOs onboard, but I have not really tried them out.
Universal platform independence will probably never come. Too different are the devices and their capabilities for that. Could you really expect to get anything to run on an old C64, even if you somehow got a .Net framework ported there?
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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CodeWraith wrote: I reached that almost by accident. I really intended to port the applications to different UIs.
Yeah it's a challenge for sure. I always think about "how will I be able to give this program to someone who has OS XYZ and doesn't know anything about technology?" It leads me down the deployment path and that is the thing I really try to solve: how can someone install my app no matter what device they have and how can I make it easy for them?
CodeWraith wrote: Could you really expect to get anything to run on an old C64, even if you somehow got a .Net framework ported there?
 We can hope!
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There is one thing that is absolutely independent of the processor, hardware, OS or languages. Algorithms. Choosing the right algorithm at least helps you to make most of whatever resources you may have.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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CodeWraith wrote: Choosing the right algorithm at least helps you to make most of whatever resources you may have.
I agree 100%.
I also found that some _real_ Architecture helped me to build my app on multiple platforms. The Domain objects in every solution are the same so I could simply convert my classes from one language to another and they worked just fine. It really sped development up.
But, of course, the UI is the real challenge since every platform requires you to build it in a different way.
Great discussion! 
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raddevus wrote: But, of course, the UI is the real challenge since every platform requires you to build it in a different way.
Then unify that way the UI is built. The MVP (Model View Presenter) did that trick for me. Model and the Presenters have become independent and only the views had to be redone for each specific UI.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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CodeWraith wrote: Then unify that way the UI is built. The MVP (Model View Presenter) did that trick for me.
Great idea.
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MVP pattern was especially well suited because the views are 'dumb' and contain as little logic as possible. So much less code that you have to implement again.
Looks like I find a reason to post this link at least once a week.  This thing started out as ASP .Net Webforms: FoC UserClient - Under Construction - YouTube[^]
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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raddevus wrote: I DuckDuckGo'd it
DuckDuckWent?
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Completely unrelated question - does DDG show images for you? Mine shows empty panels instead of the expected image...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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#realJSOP wrote: does DDG show images for you?
I think I'm missing it. Not sure what DDG is.
I did have a problem where my app's icon was not showing up when I ran it on Linux. THen I noticed that my configuration was using lowercase to reference the JPG that represented the app icon and of course on Linux files are case-sensitive.
I think you're talking about something else but I'm missing it. Let me know and I'll try to answer. Thanks,
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DDG = DuckDuckGo search engine
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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#realJSOP wrote: DDG = DuckDuckGo search engine
Oh, wow, I am slow. 
Yes, I use FireFox and if I click the images tab then I do see images on my search.
Are you using a different browser maybe?
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Firefox on Linux...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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#realJSOP wrote: Firefox on Linux...
I will try it later (I'm running win10 on my dual boot machine right now) and post back and let you know. 
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Okay, I just tried it from here on Ubuntu (18.04.3 LTS) with FireFox and images do show up.
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I DDG'd for Linda Ronstadt and got an image on the right. Clicked the images link and got lots of images.
hth
But I never wave bye bye
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Just use the FLUTTER.
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oleg63 wrote: Just use the FLUTTER[^]
*I added link
I've heard of that in the past. I thought it was for mobile apps only (android, iOS like Xamarin) but I see that it now includes desktop also. Interesting. I will check that out sometime soon.
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Very interesting, Raddevus,
I'd look forward to an article about your work with Electron in the future
«One day it will have to be officially admitted that what we have christened reality is an even greater illusion than the world of dreams.» Salvador Dali
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I've done some Electron development (a translation of a C++/Qt app I developed, just to see what developing for Electron was like) and had the following thoughts:
- It can be a bit slow (I was extracting & displaying information from 8MB XML files - is that big?)
- Installing NPM packages with native code was a pain (this was a couple of years ago, so might have improved since then)
- Is it just me, or does installing Electron/any sizable NPM package pull down almost half the Internet? Felt like it...
- I was using Javascript, not Typescript (or a similar statically typed language). I don't really like vanilla Javascript, probably because I've used it so little, so that's a problem for me...
- Packaging the application for distribution yielded something like a 100MB installer, for what was really not that much more than a 'Hello World'. Compared to around 45MB for the C++/Qt apps (yes, that includes all the Qt DLLs - my code compiled down to a 1.5MB EXE).
Having said all that, two of the apps I use (and enjoy using) most, VSCode and GitKraken, are based on Electron, so I have no issue with Electron as a technology from a user's viewpoint. Having said that, I know that GitKraken uses a fair amount of C++ to get improved performance (does VSCode? IDK)
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p
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I have nothing to fear from monsters. It was people who broke my teeth with rocks. It was men who made them think it was necessary. It was angels who watched me crying & stared when I yelled at them. It was monsters who took me inside their bodies for warmth, pleasure & sustenance. It was me who took the form of thirteen birds & died on the sand in a circle. It was meteor (may she lay us waste) who landed in the circle killing everyone. It was everyone who died. It was everyone who, briefly, was resurrected. It was everyone who immediately died again. It was empty I held in my arms after. It was the future I hold in my arms now & call holy. It was the future I kept inside my drawer with the shirts & pants. It was the microscope I used to figure out what my blood was made of. It was hospitals my blood was made of. It was ambulances I found in my breathing. It was the water that came out when I died. It was the water inside me I left to my children. It was daughters they were called by everyone but their mother. It was daughter they wrote on their chests in red ink. It was communion they had with my water then. It was me whose face hit the pavement. It was people who broke my teeth with rocks.
- Moss Angel Witchmonstr, Sea-witch, volume 1, page 57
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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honey the codewitch wrote: It was monsters who took me inside their bodies for warmth
And I thought they smelled bad on the outside! 
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
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