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Jeremy Falcon wrote: You're a smart man. A lot of the manipulators/big bois manipulating the markets do exactly that. Say for instance, intentionally trigger a price spike to clear out people's stops so they can control the price with reduced liquidity. Say, if I want to go short with a big position, I'll put in a buy first to clear out some stops and then go short. If I'm big enough to control the market, I get my money back from the buy and then reduced liquidly makes price more volatile and so I get a much better chance of dropping the price further for my original intent to sell.
Not exactly that...
The wheel is:
0) Yo need an account with Cash. (You might go margin, but I wouldn't)
1) You select a company you wouldn't mind owning stocks of. And you can for sure pay at least 100 stocks of it.
2) You sell Cash Secured Puts (CSP), if you don't get assigned, you earn the premium. If you get assigned, you buy the stock at the price you set.
3) Then you start selling Covered Calls (CC) with your stocks as collateral. You don't get assigned, you earn the premium. You get assigned, you sell your stocks at the price you set.
4) You start selling CSP until you get assigned
5) You start selling CC until you get assigned
6) rinse and repeat
It doesn't need big horse power. And if you already know about the market and some companies, it doesn't take too much time.
It needs organization, it needs to be constant, it needs a first cash inversion, it needs to work with rules and to stack with them.
Conservative people usually set automatic orders at 30% of the premium left and re-buy the option, so they just keep 70% of the premium, that's usually not much, but being constant... it adds.
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Nelek wrote: rinse and repeat
I may have to be more familiar with options for me to fully follow this then. Me think me sure. Me not sure I'm sure. I'm reading it as going counter, but I could be smoking crack on that...
Nelek wrote: It doesn't need big horse power
The horse power was for the example I was giving, fyi. Essentially, in that example I was talking about how people going counter trend to their own trades to manipulate price action. That does take horse power. Dunno about options though, referring to actual price of an instrument and not necessarily a derivative.
Nelek wrote: It needs organization, it needs to be constant, it needs a first cash inversion, it needs to work with rules and to stack with them.
Preach.
Nelek wrote: Conservative people usually set automatic orders at 30% of the premium left and re-buy the option, so they just keep 70% of the premium, that's usually not much, but being constant... it adds.
If you can systemize something, small incremental wins will do better than ton of losses... every time. Presumably, you can still scale that up with more capital. So, if it works, it works. Make it yours and scale it.
For me, as much as I'd like to tinker with options in theory, just can't lose focus on what I'm doing currently. The peeps that lose in this game, don't master something and are all over the place. So like if your desire is to be an options guru, I'm happy for ya man. For me, I like the idea of options, but it's not my wheelhouse (har har har). And, truth be told, if I did get into another market, it would most likely be Forex futures. Options will have to be one of them things that sound cool for now, but not pressing.
Not sure if you caught what I mentioned earlier btw, but given the returns I know I can get in Forex spot, gonna be a hard, hard sell to get me to stop everything I'm doing. But again, anything you master is like that. I'm sure people do just as well with options or whatever, just gotta specialize in something and learn it better than anyone else.
If you do the math, 5% ROI a week consistently is almost impossible to achieve and took me years to get there. Run the numbers on that ROI using the future value formula FutureValue = PresentValue * (1 + InterestRateInDecimal) ^ NumberOfPeriods and you'll see what I mean. Remember, anyone can get lucky once or twice, the idea is having something that's consistent and repeatable.
Jeremy Falcon
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Greetings Kind Regards
My 2nd major project upon start of my modest career was an options trading simulator for none other than Tony Saliba .
- Cheerios
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Oh, and don't get me started on the crypto scams... which I still feel for... despite being educated and knowing we were in a bubble. Sometimes people can be so convinced in their delusions they sound trustworthy... despite being 100% delusional on 100% speculation (which is a fancy word for guessing)... that even an educated person can go against their better judgement.
Nothing against crypto btw, but by the nature of a bubble, you better know when to get out.
Jeremy Falcon
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When I retired I thought I would "fiddle" around with the equities market, stuck the bulk of the funds into the wife's name and went for low risk, long term stocks. Then attempted to pick and choose some high risk, volatile stocks taking the advice of a bunch of online "experts".
3 months later having dropped a large percentage of the capital I moved the lot into the wife's choices. We don't make a lot but we don't lose much either.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity -
RAH
I'm old. I know stuff - JSOP
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Mycroft Holmes wrote: We don't make a lot but we don't lose much either.
Believe it or not, breaking even is a lot better than what most people do. Don't ask what I lost on crypto... 
I will say this though, anyone who claims they can predict the market is lying. I mean, you can make money day trading, but it's a hard learned process the "experts" lie about.
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: there is active manipulation going on in most markets.
And yet, people still believe "experts" online...
You mean the 'active manipulators.'
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I love me some RSI! It isn't biased, it just reports how strong the trend is at the moment. I always trade with the trend, when I trade. Now, that said, if today is not an up day for the market or the security that interests me, I won't buy even if the trend is up. I never go long on a down day, no matter the trend. But if the market and the security are down, and the RSI remains above about 70, I'm going short. Actually, I never use shorts; I buy Puts. The leverage really helps. I find that, in a volatile market with a moron leading the Nation, a Buy and Hold strategy is incredibly stupid, so I've been swing trading and playing options. I'm told that 80% of securities follow market trends in pricing, no matter their fundamentals, so it really makes no sense to try to fight the market, unless you have insider information.
By the way, Jeremy, I use a product called VectorVest for investing knowledge and training. They have been very good to me. They have a YouTube channel, and they will be hosting a weekly live event tomorrow called "Trending Thursday" there. Plan to be there, and I think you might be impressed by the amount of knowledge they have to impart. I highly recommend their service...
Will Rogers never met me.
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Roger Wright wrote: I love me some RSI! It isn't biased
I love ya buddy, but gonna have to disagree there man. I don't think the RSI has a negative or positive bias btw. But, I do not think any indicator is the holy grail of anything. This is coming from over a decade of trading and going through many books, a personal hired tutor, self-study, years of back testing, years of watching the charts in real time. I've broken down the math. Written my own RSI in JavaScript. I fully understand it's a lagging indicator. Went through the novice teachings. Went through the advanced teachings. I could go on. I'm to the point now I can back test over a decade's worth of trades in seconds, using things like an RSI.
Did you ever read the book by the dude that invented RSI? I did. I've hosted meetup groups training other people. And so on and so on. I could go on, but it's been my experience that online... everyone tends to assume someone is a n00b or clueless when they post something. That's not me dude. I'm posting so people don't end up like Johnny and just lie about it to save face.
Roger Wright wrote: and the RSI remains above about 70
If you believe in that, you shouldn't, but if you're still at that level, don't forget to get confirmation in a higher timeframe. Not that it means squat, but if it gives you warm fuzzies.
Roger Wright wrote: , in a volatile market with a moron leading the Nation,
This is why I like you, man.
Roger Wright wrote: I'm told that 80% of securities follow market trends in pricing, no matter their fundamentals, so it really makes no sense to try to fight the market, unless you have insider information.
Going with the RSI isn't necessarily going against the market. It's an oscillator, not psychic pixie dust. Which means, it could stay in overbought for along time while the market continues to go up. My point was pointing out the folly in assuming it can predict anything. But, totally agree you shouldn't fight the market.
Roger Wright wrote: By the way, Jeremy, I use a product called VectorVest for investing knowledge and training. They have been very good to me. They have a YouTube channel, and they will be hosting a weekly live event tomorrow called "Trending Thursday" there. Plan to be there, and I think you might be impressed by the amount of knowledge they have to impart. I highly recommend their service...
Thanks buddy, but I wouldn't be going unless I was training and they paid me. And, I already did the training others thing. Anyone that talks RSI over market theory, for instance, are not the people I'd trust. Their P&Ls I seriously doubt will be ever shown, without being doctored, etc.
Btw, the reason I stopped the meetup stuff is because I got tired of the BS. People were so egotistical about it all (not saying you) and lying about everything. Dunno what it is about money, but thar be a lot of ignorant folks with egos being fake and pretending in that circle. And they'll never show you their honest P&Ls.
Jeremy Falcon
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LOL!!! RSI is great, and I do use it, but it's not my GOTO. I like various combinations of moving averages, as well as a thing called the TTM Squeeze. But my real favorite is Options trading. I've been trading stocks since years before I passed the NASD Series 7 exam in 1987, but never touched options until about 5 years ago. What fun! 
Will Rogers never met me.
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Roger Wright wrote: but never touched options until about 5 years ago. What fun!
One of these days I'd want to play around with options too. I'm a Forex guy. Despite the bad press it gets because it's the wild west with so many scams, I love it. So, just focused on that.
Jeremy Falcon
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Roger Wright wrote: But my real favorite is Options trading
I don't know enough about options to get into it yet, but I'm reading up on it. I need to get more comfortable with it before I jump in.
-Sean
----
Fire Nuts
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Enjoy! A couple of things to know - as long as you're buying, not selling, you are at no risk other than losing the premium you paid. When you sell, it's much riskier. Also, check the Volatility rating of the underlying stock before you select an option. If the Implied Volatility (IV) is higher than the Historical Volatility (HV) it's a sign that the options are overpriced. Only buy Calls in a rising market, on an up day for the underlying stock, and when IV<HV. The opposite is true for Puts, but you still want IV<HV. Another rule: Know your exits. As soon as I have an order filled, I set what's called an OCO order to sell. This consists of two orders, one a Limit order set for a 50% profit point, the other is a Stop order set at a 50% loss. Which ever one hits first, the other one is automatically cancelled. And a critical thing to look for before you buy is the Open Interest; if there are less than 100 open contracts, you may not find a buyer when it's time to get out.
Check out a website hosted by Brain Overby called, optionsplaybook.com. I've actually got his book, but the site is the exact same material, and it's free. There he details all of the types of options plays, how to set them up, and when to use each. Have fun!
Will Rogers never met me.
-- modified 28-Mar-24 18:08pm.
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Or just do the wheel... you sell options but with less risk than other strategies (if you do it properly). I explained above what is to Jeremy.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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I know a number of people who use this method, and it seems to be reliable. I know I've taken a number of advanced classes from this VectorVest outfit, and I've enjoyed them all. But of all the techniques I've learned, trading options remains the most profitable. I still recall that, while taking the first options class I enrolled in, we were told the second week not to start anything until we're almost done with class! Too late, I read ahead and was already in. Before the class was over my profits had already paid for the course.  I can't say that my Engineering degree has done the same...
Will Rogers never met me.
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There's tons of TikTok videos that will set you straight, easy peasy.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Gonna get a Bob themed lambo...
Jeremy Falcon
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If you are interested in 6502 (and/or computing history) this video is absolutely worth a watch.
He has a bunch of quality videos for retro but this one is great for the history.
The 6502 CPU Powered a Whole Generation! - YouTube[^]
EDIT: Includes interview with Bill Mensch (one of original designer/creators of 6502).
modified 27-Mar-24 9:26am.
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Bender from Futurama CPU of choice!
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That's the chip i learned to code on! I love that lil guy.
Check out my IoT graphics library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx
And my IoT UI/User Experience library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix
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honey the codewitch wrote: That's the chip i learned to code on!
I'm very curious about a number of things. If you don't want to answer, no pressure I understand.
What year were you learning 6502?
Were you learning this on your own? Or part of some school?
What was your programming rig? IDE? Device programmer? etc.
I'm thinking you learned this back in the 80s or 90s maybe and I'm curious how you had access to that stuff? I remember having a C64 and having no idea how to program it to do anything worthwhile because all I had was BASIC and the other alternative was 6502 Assembly but I didn't know how / where I would've learned that back then.
Just curious.
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1986, on the venerable Apple ][ machines. I got a ][gs at home but i did most of my coding at school labs at the time. I was 8 so there was no programming classes at the time, but we at least had apple labs. Most of the kids played Oregon Trail. I was still into building frankenbikes and stuff in my off time before i really caught the coding bug so like i said, mostly i did it at school to kill time, a bit at home too though, especially as I gained interest.
I learned on my own starting with the BASIC programming manual that came with the Apple ][gs. I was using it in 8-bit 6502 compatibility mode until like a year later.
raddevus wrote: What was your programming rig?
Apple ][gs in 8-bit mode, and Apple ][e's mostly. Though a friend had a ][c, and later i got a commodore.
raddevus wrote: IDE?
Surely you jest!  I eventually picked up TML pascal on the ][gs but before that I had no IDE. Just a prompt and either BASIC, asm, or manual machine code (before i learned about the mini assembler)
raddevus wrote: Device programmer?
First one was an Arduino board in more recent years.
raddevus wrote: I'm thinking you learned this back in the 80s or 90s maybe and I'm curious how you had access to that stuff?
Yeah, my parents bought a ][gs as soon as it was released, and we had apple labs at our very well funded schools.
Libraries gave me access to computer mags like Byte. I learned machine code by more or less reverse engineering the code I'd find in magazines. I can't remember it now because I switched to asm as soon as I discovered the ][c and later had it.
Check out my IoT graphics library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx
And my IoT UI/User Experience library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix
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Wow! You were extremely young to begin learning to code like that.
Yeah, the question about IDE was a bit off
Fantastic information. Thanks for sharing! 
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FWIW I learned 6502 assembler in the '80s on my Acorn Atom, that had a BASIC with a brilliant inline 6502 Assembler; you could seamlessly interleave BASIC and 6502 code. The manual documented lots of information about the internals and OS API which was also very useful.
The Atom, for those who aren't familiar, was the predecessor to the BBC Micro, itself the predecessor to the Acorn Archimedes (which was technically way ahead of the Lisa and Macintosh) and Acorn Computers begat ARM. Heady days! "Acorn Computers" was a prescient name for something small that grew so big and strong, doncha think?
I still have my Acorn Atom, with manuals, but no suitable TV for video output.☹️
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Did not know Acorn was the ARM predecessor. Neat.
Check out my IoT graphics library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx
And my IoT UI/User Experience library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix
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