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I don't have an opinion on this one. Chris L., please give me one. (inside joke, you would have to read a thread Chris and I had.)
Tim Smith
I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
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I like See Sharp because it's easier to say than See Plus Plus.
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(b.t.w., that was me.)
-c
When history comes, it always takes you by surprise.
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LOL
Tim Smith
I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
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You mean that it is not called SEEpound?
Paul Watson wrote:
"At the end of the day it is what you produce that counts, not how many doctorates you have on the wall."
George Carlin wrote:
"Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things."
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Where are all the C++'ers who damn VB? Now that you finally have a official space to brag, nobody dares it.
powerful binary resource reuse - another word for "no sources, you are stuck with a pain-in-the-a## COM component"
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What are you talking about? 65% of the votes so far either say VB should be deprecated, or that they don't like it but accept it.
I personally wonder what the whole point of VB.NET is. It is different enough from VB 6 that old VB'ers pretty much have to learn a new language... so why not go on and use C#, built from the ground-up to have the object-oriented and code-reuse advantages of C++, but being able to take full advantage of .NET?
(Note: I don't really do much .NET programming, but if I had to, I would definitely use C#.)
You can pick your friends, and you can pick your nose, but you can't pick your friend's nose.
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Navin wrote:
personally wonder what the whole point of VB.NET is. It is different enough from VB 6 that old VB'ers pretty much have to learn a new language... so why not go on and use C#, built from the ground-up
Because they are not able to understand all those complicated semicolons and braces.
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.. or the concept of re-usable code.
You can pick your friends, and you can pick your nose, but you can't pick your friend's nose.
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I don't understand your reasoning here. VBers don't understand things like classes and ActiveX controls?
Paul Watson wrote:
"At the end of the day it is what you produce that counts, not how many doctorates you have on the wall."
George Carlin wrote:
"Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things."
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Ray Cassick wrote:
I don't understand your reasoning here. VBers don't understand things like classes and ActiveX controls?
It seems most VBers don't actually *write* ActiveX controls... they just use them. And anyway, that's only part of code-reuse... try to explain the concept of a reusable base class to a VB-er and you will usually get a blank stare.
You can pick your friends, and you can pick your nose, but you can't pick your friend's nose.
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Navin wrote:
It seems most VBers don't actually *write* ActiveX controls... they just use them.
Well that sucks.... it's true, but it still sucks
Paul Watson wrote:
"At the end of the day it is what you produce that counts, not how many doctorates you have on the wall."
George Carlin wrote:
"Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things."
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I don't think the blank starte has anything to do with the coversation. All VB-er I talk to have that stare anyways
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Is it this stare 
or this one 
or maybe it is this one 
but probably this one 
but if C++ers have it they would have VBers look this way 
and with my C++, VB, Java, and SQL experience they all say I look this way 
But no matter how you put it VB was for the quick and dirty without need for a lot of complicated expression. (By the way I write a lot of ASP and do an awfull lot in VB ActiveX for simple functionality I need, but why should you rebuild the house when all you need is the door).
I like C++ for the more advanced needs of threading, completetion ports, and a whole slew of other wizbang power options. But if all I need is a simple database front end VB does the job quite nicely. I hated what they did with VB in .NET when I first saw it but having converted to using native C++ with a special GUI need the transition hasn't been as bad as I expected.
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From what I have seen, few C++ programmers know what to do with a base class as well. Good object oriented design and programming is about knowledge, not language. I have seen some god-awful messes in C++ by people who *tried* to do OOP. I hate all this BS from every VC programmer who instantly think they are OOP experts.
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
Because they are not able to understand all those complicated semicolons and braces.
Trust me -- of the 45+ professional VBers I know, only one understands C based languages. The rest just stare blindly.
I'm not joking here, I'm serious.
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zenboy wrote:
Trust me -- of the 45+ professional VBers
Professional VBers? PROFESSIONAL VBers?!?! What has this world come to 
If there were no god, it would be necessary to invent one.
-- Voltaire
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Why is so important that 'one understands C based languages'?
I am really interested in this comment. Do poeple take C-like syntax as some 'be-all-end-all' solution to problems?
I get the feeling that you fols would not like VB even if it had ; and {}'s.
What the hell is the difference between:
For counter = 1 to 100
Debug.Writeline(counter.ToString)
Next counter
...and...
For counter = 1 to 100
{
Debug.WriteLine(counter.ToString);
}
I just don't get it.
- VBers only have to hit ENTER at the end of each line
- VBers don't have to play match the braces when they start to get into some deep nested situations. They have an 'END...' or a 'NEXT...' to help them
- VBers get a way better forms designer than C++ could ever hope for. (Everett not included here)
...as Ray steps out of the way of bottles and other projectiles that he knows will be tossed his way.........
Paul Watson wrote:
"At the end of the day it is what you produce that counts, not how many doctorates you have on the wall."
George Carlin wrote:
"Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things."
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Ray Cassick wrote:
What the hell is the difference between:
For counter = 1 to 100 Debug.Writeline(counter.ToString)Next counter
...and...
For counter = 1 to 100 { Debug.WriteLine(counter.ToString); }
you mean
<br />
for (i = 0; i < 100; ++i)
Debug.WriteLine(i.ToString);<br />
Ray Cassick wrote:
- VBers only have to hit ENTER at the end of each line
Lucky you. It is sooo hard to put a semicolon at the end of each statement.
Ray Cassick wrote:
- VBers don't have to play match the braces when they start to get into some deep nested situations. They have an 'END...' or a 'NEXT...' to help them
You should try LISP if you think C braces are complicated to match.
Ray Cassick wrote:
VBers get a way better forms designer than C++ could ever hope for. (Everett not included here
True. However, that has nothing to do with the language.
Here is what I hate with VB:
<br />
Dim i As Integer<br />
vs
<br />
int i;<br />
And now when you finally have inheritence, you need to use Inherits instead of a colon, etc. And you claim that VB is productive 
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
Lucky you. It is sooo hard to put a semicolon at the end of each statement.
The problem here is that it is NOT the end of each line, so you have to watch where you DO put them and where you DON'T put them.
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
For counter = 1 to 100 { Debug.WriteLine(counter.ToString); }
How about this?
for i = 0 to 100: Debug.Writeline(i.ToString): Next i
Lets Compare...
for (i = 0; i < 100; ++i){Debug.WriteLine(i.ToString);}
Paul Watson wrote:
"At the end of the day it is what you produce that counts, not how many doctorates you have on the wall."
George Carlin wrote:
"Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things."
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Ray Cassick wrote:
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
Lucky you. It is sooo hard to put a semicolon at the end of each statement.
The problem here is that it is NOT the end of each line, so you have to watch where you DO put them and where you DON'T put them.
Do you really don't know the difference between a statement and a line in code? Amazing...
Ray Cassick wrote:
Lets Compare...
for (i = 0; i < 100; ++i){Debug.WriteLine(i.ToString);}
You have some extra braces here.
<br />
for (i = 0; i < 100; ++i)Debug.WriteLine(i.ToString);<br />
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
Do you really don't know the difference between a statement and a line in code? Amazing...
I do understand, and was trying to make a point. Just the simple fact that you HAVE to understand makes C++ harder to read.
Oh never mind....
Paul Watson wrote:
"At the end of the day it is what you produce that counts, not how many doctorates you have on the wall."
George Carlin wrote:
"Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things."
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Alright who cares what you do to get the results you need.
VB great for quick and dirty front ends.
But say you need to refresh the data in a list view every 3 sec.
VB just winks at you and you don't get much help with that.
C++ however you can do your own drawing and cleanly get ride of the flicker so the user doesn't even realize it had happen.
The isn't a war of syntax you goofs, it is a matter of end result.
My only reason for disliking but embracing VB first was the ease of developement but it is not designed for powerhouse applications.
I walk many worlds of syntax and with ASP developement find myself thinking 4 or more languages at a time (HTML, VBScript server side, Javascript client side, TSQL backend, XML, and others) so you just have to learn to deal with it.
My only concern has been those idiot managers who think all projects work great as VB or those who do believe C++ is the only way to think even on the simplest project.
Get over it use what will provide the best results in the best time, if you don't understand more than one language you might as well not bother looking for another job these days.
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Anonymous wrote:
I walk many worlds of syntax and with ASP developement find myself thinking 4 or more languages at a time (HTML, VBScript server side, Javascript client side, TSQL backend, XML, and others) so you just have to learn to deal with it.
ASP is an abortion. I hope your new projects are moving to ASP.NET ?
Anonymous wrote:
if you don't understand more than one language you might as well not bother looking for another job these days.
Now this I agree with.
Christian
NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIG IS THE WORD SIZE ,THE DATA MUCT BE TRANSPORTED INTO THE CPU. - Vinod Sharma
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Unfortunately we have too many ASP apps at this time and no server for .NET implementation yet. Although I have to say the latest benchmarks I saw a while back (sorry I have to dig them up) didn't impress me. Overall execution time was down and I have not seen any of the performance gains that were reported show up anywhere I can look behind. Anyone see a report in the last three months with really good figures and exactly what they were doing (and I don't mean the MS benchmarks, I want real world)?
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