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Thank you, Nish.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
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I think it's simpler to ignore them than making efforts to insult them. I've almost completely stopped visiting the Q/A section for this reason. There's way too much tripe to wade through.
Most of the questions are completely ignorant (a simple google search must give the answer in a plate), and some of the responses given are insulting (not helpful in any way) and such answers get upvoted. This has become like a trend there, and it needs to change.
Workout progress:
Current arm size: 14.4in
Desired arm size: 18in
Next Target: 15.4in by Dec 2010
Current training method: HIT
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I like looking through the Q&A section looking for the pearls among the swine. There have been some decent questions in there.
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Onyx
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This begs for statistical information; in a given location (Q&A, each of the forums) and time period (the last month, the last three months) how many questions were there? how many answers? how may question up-votes/down-votes? how many answer up-votes? etc.
We have a rep system for members, we now need a rep system for site subsystems.
The graph of overall questions (or answers) over time would be interesting too.
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [Why QA sucks] [My Articles]
I only read formatted code with indentation, so please use PRE tags for code snippets.
I'm not participating in frackin' Q&A, so if you want my opinion, ask away in a real forum (or on my profile page).
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I wouldn't claim that the Q&A system was in any way near to being perfect, but as long as people are posting there, I'll try and help out. The issue with it is that people have been seduced into thinking that StackOverflow is a really good model to follow and it's doing its damnedest to be a wiki, but that's not a solid model to base an answer system on.
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Onyx
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I agree having a good wiki around would be nice, StackOverflow does not have one AFAIK, and neither does CP. Wikipedia does hold some very nice pages.
I also think forcing programming questions and answers in the current Q&A format is not very suited to discussion, and will not lead to a wiki ever.
However all I was saying is some statistical and historical information about the site and its parts would be interesting to see.
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [Why QA sucks] [My Articles]
I only read formatted code with indentation, so please use PRE tags for code snippets.
I'm not participating in frackin' Q&A, so if you want my opinion, ask away in a real forum (or on my profile page).
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The vote statistics may not be an indication of the quality of answers, since the most up-voted answers will invariably be the smartest insults.
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Measuring quality ain't easy; the voting system is an honest attempt, however it can be abused. I trust Chris is open to every suggestion you or anyone else can come up with.
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [Why QA sucks] [My Articles]
I only read formatted code with indentation, so please use PRE tags for code snippets.
I'm not participating in frackin' Q&A, so if you want my opinion, ask away in a real forum (or on my profile page).
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Luc Pattyn wrote: I trust Chris is open to every suggestion you or anyone else can come up with.
I've directly or indirectly expressed my thoughts on this to Chris several times in the past. And I do believe that he does not really approve of the rude default reactions in the Q/A and the other forums either.
What's needed is an official response to individuals who consistently reply in an abusive fashion. Something like:
"Dear Xyz, while we truly appreciate your efforts in our programming forums, we are also quite concerned about the negative nature of some of your responses. We request that you make an effort to correct this behavior and if that's too difficult for you, then please refrain from participating in our forums"
That will piss a few people off, but the majority of CPians will probably appreciate the core idea and act accordingly.
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Of course I agree the abuse is bad and should be banned, except maybe against extreme repeat-idiots who refuse to take several suggestions and hints.
Abuse has been present in the forums for a while, it mostly ended when Chris has put up the howto stickies saying it wasn't within the site's policy. AFAIK it did make one knowledgeable CPian move out, and brought many others back in line. Basically the same instructions are shown on the Edit Answer page in Q&A, however they seem less effective. Of course it is people who offend, and they need to be told off, however I also blame the Q&A format: it makes things look more anonymous and more volatile than the forums do, by mostly showing a single question at a time, and somewhat hiding the author's name. On forums you have an overview of threads and messages, with a column holding author names, and colors indicating scores; it gives much more of a community feeling IMO.
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [Why QA sucks] [My Articles]
I only read formatted code with indentation, so please use PRE tags for code snippets.
I'm not participating in frackin' Q&A, so if you want my opinion, ask away in a real forum (or on my profile page).
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I agree with everything you say there, Luc. I don't have much to add so I gave you a 5 
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The problem is that you get more rep points for providing an answer (regardless of its true nature) than you do for "organizing", editing, or commenting.
Personally, I'm weary of the crap questions about writing a simple chat in asp.net, or converting Indian currency values to words, and many times, it's more fun to be a dick than it is to repeatedly offer things like, "google is your friend", or "don't post homework questions", etc, etc.
I agree that we should probably eliminate the less friendly tags, but it's impossible to fight human nature, and sometimes, you gotta call it like you see it. We spend a lot of time looking through the questions to see if we can help someone 9and let's face it, that's the only way people get help is by someone else looking at their question voluntarily). It's unfortunate that the majority of new near/middle/far east programmers have so little initiative, and some/moderate backlash should be expected from more experienced programmers.
I'm a smart-ass by habit, and I'm probably more likely than anyone else to postulate on someone's inability to breathe without instructions. It's just gonna happen. I can't help myself.
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001
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I know it isn't always easy to stay calm and polite; questions can be badly worded, show a lack of understanding or initiative, and all that.
Here is my trick: when I compose a reply, I always imagine the possibility my message is going to be the very first thing the enquirer will read on CodeProject; that is what sets the tone. If I don't like the question much (mostly due to clear laziness on the part of the enquirer) my answer gets shorter, or I don't provide any. That works for me. And a have a short blacklist, people that have irritated me enough to be ignored in future (my memory serves me well enough, so I don't need to write it down).
Of course, I relax the rules when I know the enquirer is familiar with the site, or I am familiar with his way of interacting here. I do appreciate a little joke or leg pulling on occasion, once a question has been sufficiently answered. We don't want a boring site either, do we?
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [Why QA sucks] [My Articles]
I only read formatted code with indentation, so please use PRE tags for code snippets.
I'm not participating in frackin' Q&A, so if you want my opinion, ask away in a real forum (or on my profile page).
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Vote them down and ignore them.
Why spend time with people who do not deserve it? We should rather focus on those (few) questions from real software developers or those who decided to become one and need help! I do not want to spend my time reading angry comments or stupid questions.
Don't know what the best solution is and haven't really understand what the problem is (human stupidity, CP audience, QA concept design?)... but I thought about one possible alternative. We have enough editorial volunteers (members with edit rights)? How about some kind of incubator for new accounts, question from those users will first go trough an editorial stage before they are allowed to shot questions directly at the wider audience. Secondly some templates for editors would be nice, instead of thinking about a matching text use something like {{googleit}} {{formatit}} {{homework}} and they expand to a helpful text (idea borrowed from Wikipedia). Maybe this keeps most crap out and is cheaper then removing it afterwards.
Cheers
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: sometimes, you gotta call it like you see it
I totally agree with you JSOP...
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Just vote the question down. Much easier.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
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Oh OK then. I'll try harder to be a good boy then.
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Onyx
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I agree that most probably do deserve it. But what about the ones who simply ask a bad question in the wrong way with poor language?
I think everyone here on CP, even the famously patient Nish, has felt like hammering some of these questions. When I feel this urge coming on, I know I've been reading posts too long, and I just stop. Maybe pick up Moby Dick and read the first few pages. Or find a real human to talk to. Or get a nice cold one and listen to Madeleine Peyroux. You get the idea.
CP burnout is not pretty.
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Hans Dietrich wrote: But what about the ones who simply ask a bad question in the wrong way with poor language?
I hope that I (and you) are able to recognise the difference, and respond accordingly.
It's time for a new signature.
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Yes, I agree. I'm more concerned about people not recognizing that they have forum burnout.
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I've removed the worst of those tags.
Yes, some people have problems formatting. Yes, some people prefer to talk to someone and ask for an answer instead of Googling.
If everyone actually took the time to Google, read the docs, experiment and just plain old nut it out then we wouldn't even be here.
cheers,
Chris Maunder
The Code Project | Co-founder
Microsoft C++ MVP
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I personally do not abuse anyone no matter how simple the question is. The most rude reply I would give is "Have you tried googling?". I too am not a fan of people making fun of guys who are either not that well equipped or ignorant.
IMO the best way is to just ignore the question.
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Damn - how polite everybody has suddenly become in the QA forum due to this post... 
Nobody stepping anybody on the toes; Heck, even JSOP asks before he shoots... 
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I spend a fair bit of time on the train and have the habbit of browssing on my mobile and as is the forums are hard to read in a phone browser.
So pretty please, can we have the forums mobile-aware?
Panic, Chaos, Destruction.
My work here is done.
or "Drink. Get drunk. Fall over." - P O'H
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