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I get you point on the matter of uncertainty but still that is not convincing that uncertainties and errors could be the secret behind the brains ability to be self aware or perform with exceptional abilities, it is accurate neural computations that give the brain those awesome properties.
Fabio Franco wrote: Don't put religion and belief in a technical discussion.
Yeah i should not do that, but how can i put it, because humans are as a result of mere design with a purpose. I wanted to say that we were designed! That sounds religious no matter how i put it 
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BupeChombaDerrick wrote: I wanted to say that we were designed!
I also believe that, but in a different way. If you are curious, I believe that God set in motion a series of events and variables that made our universe and that He designed the universe, the physics, the uncertainties that finally led to us.
My point is that religiously or not I still think that we are the product of errors neatly designed and that randomnes allowed us to evolve to who we are and let everyone be unique.
I still think that if we were not subject to all these interferences from the universe, these errors, we would never be where we are. And these sort of complexities governed by the nature of physics is what is really difficult to replicate in a software simulation. To create something as majestic as our brain ought to take a lot of scientific evolution.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson
----
Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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So you are saying there was no intention in the mind of God to design us, just the result of some spontaneous process left alone? I think God did more than setting events in motion. Anyways this is just another vast topic about creation. Going back to self awareness, do uncertainties help us be unique?Yes. Do uncertainties make us self aware?No,i don't think so, thus a computer program need not simulate uncertainties to be self aware, besides environmental factors in the input sensors and the inherent properties of semiconductors already have fluctuations,defects or uncertainties in them, any signal travelling in a channel will carry some uncertainties alone the way, so the inputs to this program might not be error free to start with.
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BupeChombaDerrick wrote: So you are saying there was no intention in the mind of God to design us
That's where you're mistaken, I believe He designed and set the event in motion so perfectly to have the exact outcome He expected in the first place.
BupeChombaDerrick wrote: Do uncertainties make us self aware?
Not particularly, but without it we couldn't be, that's what I believe.
BupeChombaDerrick wrote: any signal travelling in a channel will carry some uncertainties alone the way, so the inputs to this program might not be error free to start with.
Yes, but far from the complexity the physic world can give
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson
----
Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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Fabio Franco wrote: Yes, but far from the complexity the physic world can give
but it might be enough to get the job done. Maybe future experiments will elaborate on that. Maybe our future generations will carry out such experiments. Today,we are limited to do such experiments.
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In a manner of speaking, there is already a program that is self-aware. The genetic code sequencing in a DNA molocule programs living things to act and react the way that they do. So we have "hardware" (the brain) and "software" (DNA) that allows biological systems to be self-aware.
IBM is working on the hardware to mimic the brain and has already made some progress. So all we need now is software to mimic genetic code sequencing and that will allow a computer system to be self-aware.
It's just a matter of time...
Enjoy!
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Yes, even us humans, are programmed genetically speaking, some people are finding it hard to assimilate the fact that there is a possibility that programs can be made aware of their existence or they are already.
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It is unlikely that a single computer will be self aware. However, a sufficiently large system with sufficient randomness and errors, that constantly changes, evolves, and attempts to self-correct (heal) errors may just evolve such awareness.
Consider the Internet. It connects vasts amounts of information, has sensory input of various types, sound, vision, news feeds, etc.
Given a threat to its existence, and the right 'errors' in its fault tolerence algorithms, who knows what could happen.
For an interesting read on this possibility check out Robert J. Sawyer's 'Wake' trilogy.
For an oldy but goody try 'The Adolesences of P1', author forgotten by me.
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yes it can be hard to do such a simulation on a single computer, but i also think self awareness can be achievable with programs not anywhere near as complex as the brain.
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I agree, animals are self aware in a form and their brains are less complex.
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Good to see some support
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'The Adolesences of P1', author is Thomas J Ryan.
Dave.
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I believe there are aspects of a biological organism that just cannot be fully replicated in electronics.
We may get to the point where CPUs and software can replicate the processing power of a human brain (like one post says: we are as close to that as earth is to the edge of the universe) but I don't think it would ever be "alive" or aware of its self.
Of course, this is my non-professional opinion so take it with a grain of salt.
This is indeed a very interesting and thought-provoking post.
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yeah it is hard to get around this thought, i was thinking that if you can hold a meaningful conversation with a machine and it can recognize you and respond to your emotions i don't see why it shouldn't be considered to be aware of it's environment and whats going on at least.
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You know you've looked into a can of worms that people have been looking into for many many years.
I would argue that once a comptuer passes the turing test than it will probably demand human rights or "intelligent lifeform" rights and will probably get some form of legal protection.
I would call it self aware, it would probably call itself self aware.
Good question. And judging by the number of responses many other people are interested too.
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Nice reply Tim Yen.
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When you build it, you should ask it.
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Good one, but i think it can argue that it is self awareness and can convince a lot of people, and i think if it did that then it deserves to be considered self aware.
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One newbie mistake is looking at this from *only* a computer science aspect. Defining consciousness, as well as answering certain fundamental questions such as how it arises and is kept up are currently being researched very heavily.
Anyone coming back with solely "In my opinion, *blah* defines consciousness" will be summarily dismissed 
Thanks,
Sean
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I'am afraid i did not look at this from "only" a computer science perspective, i have researched in neural sensory processing as well.And i don't seem to get your point, the reply is not clear. 
“Be at war with your vices, at peace with your neighbors, and let every new year find you a better man.”
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In the free online course CS101 from Stanford University, available at www.coursera.com[^], they say that:
The fundamental equation of computers is:
Computer = Powerful + Stupid
Where does "Extreme Artificial Intelligence" come in?
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Amarnath S wrote: they say that:
The fundamental equation of computers is:
Computer = Powerful + Stupid
It's their opinion.
Amarnath S wrote: Where does "Extreme Artificial Intelligence" come in?
Extreme Artificial intelligence comes in because i'am talking about mimicking human intelligence in a machine.
“Be at war with your vices, at peace with your neighbors, and let every new year find you a better man or woman.”
modified 11-May-12 9:31am.
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Before this question, how do you know that I am self aware?
It's quite easy to answer a "Are you self aware?" question for a program.
My opinion is that if we can't distinguish a program from a human, or any creature, then we can say that it has self awareness. Google Turing Test may give more information.
But I don't think the way to achieve such intelligence is the same structure as human brain.
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vault_zry wrote: My opinion is that if we can't distinguish a program from a human, or any creature, then we can say that it has self awareness.
yes that is right in someway.
vault_zry wrote: Google Turing Test may give more information.
I know what Turing test is. 
vault_zry wrote: But I don't think the way to achieve such intelligence is the same structure as human brain.
Yes, such intelligence can be achievable with other designs other than that of the human brain. I used the human brain in the question as a reference because we are convinced that it is the most advanced signal processor and gives as the self awareness we enjoy.
“Be at war with your vices, at peace with your neighbors, and let every new year find you a better man or woman.”
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Awareness is one thing. Being aware that you are aware is something different. Animals are aware but not self-aware (well, so I've heard).
Self-awareness is being conscious. This brings to the fore how something develops consciousness. Is it a specific arrangements of molecules? Is it a specific set of chemical reactions? Or is it maybe a specific set of computations?
I think consciousness works on a whole different level where computers will never dwell.
So no self-aware computers or programs will likely ever be seen.
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