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Marc Clifton wrote: But if people were dreaming of creating an untaxable monetary unit, well
As Joe Black told... two things are unavoidable... death and taxes 
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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It is fairly obvious that digital currencies are a fraud, only the MORe Optimistical than Needed for Safety don't understand that. Besides, bubbles and frauds are definetely a JPMorgan area of expertise.
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF
* GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
* Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game.
* I'm a puny punmaker.
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Might be fairly obvious to you, but won't be that obvious to all of us. Could you please explain how a BC is "obvious" a fraud? Compared to, say, the "Euro"? 
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Because it is nothing. It does not exist. It's merely a convention between unknown (therefore untrustworthy) people. It can cease to exist from one moment to the other without any safety measure by anyone, leaving those who bought digital currency with real money with nothing, and those who sold nothing for real money richer.
Many people will buy this thingy until it will be closed down - the sellers keep the cash, the buyers an encrypted file. And noone can prevent that, no reevaluation of the curreny can be done, nothing.
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF
* GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
* Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game.
* I'm a puny punmaker.
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You're saying I am more untrustworthy than Mario Draghi?? 
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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I for sure am. Try me: for 500$ I will send you an encrypted wallet with den2kCoins that you can spend online without banks or governments in the middle!
(Joke icon because I don't really want your 500$. The real price would be 1000, its value just doubled).
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF
* GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
* Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game.
* I'm a puny punmaker.
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It's a fair question. Since the abolition of the gold standard, do "real" currencies mean anything in concrete terms? In the era of quantitative easing, it's hard to ascribe any real world value to something that can be printed at will. In many ways our currencies have become a matter of (largely consensual) mass-delusion.
Is BC any better? No, it's every bit as nebulous as what we already have.
Is every bubble destined to burst? Absolutely, that's what bubbles do.
Is the entire ball of string and sellotape that constitutes the global economy going to collapse in a big heap one day? I'm not sure, but I think I can guess where the smart money, pseudo-money and crypto-money would all be going.
98.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.
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PeejayAdams wrote: Is BC any better? No, it's every bit as nebulous as what we already have.
With the difference of BC being "limited" in amounts, and Euro's not. Mario keeps printing new ones, which dilutes the value of all euro's in existence. BC is in those terms equal to electronic money, with the difference that governments cannot inflate their way out of debt.
PeejayAdams wrote: Is every bubble destined to burst? Absolutely, that's what bubbles do.
It's too soon to call BC a bubble; if it becomes a valid currency in more places then the demand will rise higher still (and so will the price).
PeejayAdams wrote: Is the entire ball of string and sellotape that constitutes the global economy going to collapse in a big heap one day? I'm not sure, but I think I can guess where the smart money, pseudo-money and crypto-money would all be going.
It would be a temporary end of credit, not of money.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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I agree totally that QE makes a mockery of money, but as your quotes round "limited" suggest there's just no guarantee that a pseudo-currency won't go the same way.
I'm not entirely sure that it's too early to call it a bubble - anything that has risen from under $1K to a peak of something approaching $4K in the space of a few months certainly exhibits all the classic signs of something that's about to go pop.
Its valuation is based almost entirely on the assumption that it will become an increasingly accepted currency. It faces an unlimited number of competitors and given its rather sordid image, it is highly questionable whether many legitimate businesses would want to be seen accepting a currency that would come with so much negative baggage. I find it quite conceivable that some virtual currency or other may do what many expected BC to do but I can't see it being BC itself, it will be one that starts out in a far more reputable environment than the dark net.
98.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.
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PeejayAdams wrote: as your quotes round "limited" suggest there's just no guarantee that a pseudo-currency won't go the same way.
It can't, since one cannot print BC's. You can mine, but that will not cause major shifts in the value. It is not like coal where we might find another deposit in the earth - the amount will remain limited, regardless of politicis.
PeejayAdams wrote: I'm not entirely sure that it's too early to call it a bubble - anything that has risen from under $1K to a peak of something approaching $4K in the space of a few months certainly exhibits all the classic signs of something that's about to go pop.
A quick rise does not make a bubble*; it just means that a lot of people are becoming interested at the same time. It could be called a bubble if the thing is clearly overvalued - which we cannot state since we do not know what the fair value of a BC would be once it is generally accepted.
PeejayAdams wrote: Its valuation is based almost entirely on the assumption that it will become an increasingly accepted currency.
No; it's value is based on how usefull something is for humans. That makes value something relative - a dollar may be useless in some countries. Same goes for a pound of the best cow-meat. The value of BC comes from the fact that we have a unit of exchange that cannot be debased by government.
PeejayAdams wrote: It faces an unlimited number of competitors
Yes, best defense of the government against BC is to drown them in alternatives. If some of those alternatives blow up, even better.
PeejayAdams wrote: it will be one that starts out in a far more reputable environment than the dark net.
So BC is crap because it was not invented in Church?
Perhaps I can make an appointment with the prison and show you how the people are doing that came from a very reputable place
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: So BC is crap because it was not invented in Church?
No, BC is tainted in the business arena by the way that people perceive it. If I'm running a business selling toys, I don't want to put a sign on my window saying "Bitcoin accepted" because I know that my customers are going to subconsciously link that with cocaine, AK-47s and all manner of things that they don't want anywhere near their children. It may not correspond with my own value judgment but I'm somewhat compelled to respond to the attitudes of my customers.
98.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.
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PeejayAdams wrote: If I'm running a business selling toys, I don't want to put a sign on my window saying "Bitcoin accepted" because I know that my customers are going to subconsciously link that with cocaine, AK-47s and all manner of things that they don't want anywhere near their children.
Which is rediculous nonsense.
Most criminals use cash dollars, those that don't use English and Dutch banks. People using BC are not criminals by default, and most criminals are too paranoid to try anything new. I'm tired of the idiot-association - as if there were no criminals without BC.
PeejayAdams wrote: It may not correspond with my own value judgment but I'm somewhat compelled to respond to the attitudes of my customers.
Which is based on Mario's marketing-department. And one can always trust a banker ofcourse 
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Which is why JPMorgan will be opening a new cryptocurrency division tomorrow!
He's just upset; defrauding investors is his job.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
- Benjamin Disraeli
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It's only a fraud if someone is intentionally trying to deceive you, and I think the creators/promoters of cryptocurrencies genuinely believe in what they're doing.
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My favorite bit on bitcoin: Conan BitCoin Skit from Youtube
It Is The Absolute Verifiable Truth & Proven Fact
That Your Belly-Button Signature Ties
To Viviparous Mama.
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From here
(sorry for caps, I c&p'd the title page)
UNIFORM REGULATION OF VIRTUAL CURRENCY
BUSINESSES ACT*
Drafted by the
NATIONAL CONFERENCE OF COMMISSIONERS
ON UNIFORM STATE LAWS
and by it
APPROVED AND RECOMMENDED FOR ENACTMENT
IN ALL THE STATES
at its
ANNUAL CONFERENCE
MEETING IN ITS ONE-HUNDRED-AND-TWENTY-SIXTH YEAR
SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA
JULY 14 - JULY 20, 2017
SECTION 201. LICENSE. A person may not engage in virtual currency business
activity, or hold itself out as being able to engage in virtual currency business activity, with a
resident unless the person is:
(1) licensed under this [act];
(2) licensed to conduct virtual currency business activity by a state with which this state
has a reciprocity agreement;
(3) a registrant operating in compliance with Section 210; or
(4) exempt from this [act] under Section 103.
So, you need a license, and:
“Virtual currency” means
(A) a digital representation of value that:
(1) is used as a medium of exchange, unit of account, or store of value; and
(2) is not legal tender, whether or not denominated in legal tender; and
(B) does not include:
(1) a transaction in which a merchant grants value as part of an affinity or
rewards program, which value cannot be taken from or exchanged with the merchant for legal
tender, bank credit, or virtual currency; or
(2) a digital representation of value issued by or on behalf of the publisher
and used within an online game, game platform, or family of games sold by the same publisher
or offered on the same game platform.
you can have fun with your play money as long as you don't use it for anything that can be exchanged for real money or a licensed crptocurrency, or you use it only in a game, but not between games.
So if you’re one of those futurist people that thinks they can build a better, more equitable world by creating a community based on untaxed, unregulated exchange of goods and services (think organic food growers, alternative schools, natural building materials, and magical thinking healers) with your own virtual currency, think again.
modified 13-Sep-17 21:32pm.
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The French startup has created energy-saving distributed servers to power compute-intensive industries such as finance, research, and 3D animation. "And the heat goes on..."
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Oracle has chosen the Eclipse Foundation to be the new home of the Java Platform Enterprise Edition (Java EE), the company announced today. I really should make a "Sun has finally been Eclipsed" joke here, but eh. Seems too easy.
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Microsoft is continuing to tinker with the privacy configuration and options in Windows 10, with the Fall Creators Update, due for release on October 17, including yet more changes to the privacy controls above and beyond those made in the previous update. Windows has privacy settings?
Or is that "privacy" settings?
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Kent Sharkey wrote: including yet more changes to the privacy controls above and beyond those made in the previous update.
I bet the changes are to make them even more difficult to find and or to activate them (privacy)
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Speaking at the Open Source Summit in L.A., the Linux creator said he wants hackers to join Linux before they turn to the dark side. Before they join the dark side?
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Hard to find kernel fighter pilots.
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Linux Kernel development should be added to Dante's Inferno.
(at least as long as linus is there)
I'd rather be phishing!
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Always look on the dark side of life...
(Monty Python - Always Look on the Bright Side of Life)
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack.
--Winston Churchill
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