|
The problem is that within a trading block any state-aid that benefits one company over another is illegal.. so, for example, the fact that the French government subsidised the development costs of nuclear power stations that then benefitted EDF was deemed illegal.
Apple aren't blameless in this either - they explicitly asked for the tax deal and were touting it around multiple EU countries before the got agreement from Ireland.
|
|
|
|
|
I wouldn't claim apple to be blameless for anything - except, in this case, they were making a business deal with a sovereign nation and if this violates the rules to which that nation agreed to then they're the ones who committed the violation - perhaps the whole island should be walled up and put in prison for fraud?
No one twisted anyone's arm to offer a the deal in violation of any law. They could have remained on the up-and-up easily enough. They were greedy and wanted the deal - well now it's time to pay back some of the money they made from having the company there.
That's worth repeating: well now it's time to pay back some of the money they made from having the company there. because they didn't do it out of charity - they thought to make so money on this.
It's just typical EU budget balancing at the expense of US corporations.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
|
|
|
|
|
It is typical US Corporations that want to benefit more than it's competitors....
Europe is paying for years for the infrastructure of the country while they could have paid that themselves by asking proper taxes. Apple paid 0.005% taxrate. No consumer could get that.
In Word you can only store 2 bytes. That is why I use Writer.
|
|
|
|
|
Nothing about what apple did or didn't pay is relevant: they had a contract with a sovereign nation and that nation should be held to honor it.
As for EU infrastructure? Proper taxes? Not even the least bit relevant. At least not until they give Apple and Microsoft seats in the Brussels gathering of idiots.
This comes down to a very simple and basic concept: do you trust in a legal agreement signed in the EU or not. Apparently, and repeatedly, we know the answer is "NOT".
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
|
|
|
|
|
And the EU should trust TTIP?
In Word you can only store 2 bytes. That is why I use Writer.
|
|
|
|
|
I wouldn't - I find that any trade agreement the US makes with Europe or Asia is a disaster for the US. Just trade - or make trade war if that's the cover you wish to use to hide a failing culture - but I'm really disgusted with rEUgulations.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
|
|
|
|
|
Quote: ... I find that any trade agreement the US makes with Europe or Asia is a disaster for the US...
Also said as:
- As soon US is not more free to do whatever it wants, it begins the pain?
|
|
|
|
|
Mario Vernari wrote:
Also said as:
- As soon US is not more free to do whatever it wants, it begins the pain?
Here's the FIFY:
Also said as:
- since the US product is so good the EU cannot compete so they fine and take some of the profits anyway*
* For example, fining Google because (1) they put paid advertisers ahead of others in the search - even though that has always been their business model and never a secret, and (2) Google has over 90% of the EU search traffic so they're a monopoly. Who's fault is (2)? It's substantially lower in the US (we use Yahoo, Bing, etc.) and the fact that no EU web-search product is worth the time to type in the address-bar is another problem the thieves in Brussels cannot stand for. The EU is taking a cue from an old USA proverb "The power to tax is the power to destroy". In our case, it's a seperation-of-church-and-state thing, but in your case, it's a clue on how to compete in business when you're not good enough to compete.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
|
|
|
|
|
It doesn't matter. Google goes away? K bro, some months of discomfort later and we'll have our version. No Farcebook? VK is already there to stay. No Apple? There are A LOT of EU makers that are struggling against the monopoly of now US-controlled giants, and there still are Sony, Asus, Acer, Huawei ans HTC of the big giants.
Fools will still buy US products thus incerasing the volumes of business of Import/Export companies. Services will be EU tailored so it would be more than possible that US companies wouldn't be listed first in the new search engines.
And our markets are already expanding Eastwards, slower than they could because the US keeps intervening. The moment when US companies will release their economic grip here will be the moment the US nation will lose the political one.
I'm not at all anti US, which is a current trend, but I'm fairly sure we can survive without them. And without their sock puppet in EU too (aka UK).
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
|
|
|
|
|
If you could beat google you would have. Your statement is totally empty.
All the problems of the EU are US caused, such as you not being able to expand eastward. Well - that's so typical of a failed system, find an outsider to blame. Maybe you should build a wall?
When it comes to mercenary business practices, it was EU representatives that were in Iran before the Ink dried on the deal to let Iran do whatever it wants to do (the reality, after the built in caveats are included). You just couldn't wait to try and get your hands on that money. As usually, worry about the consequences later. Just bring a trophy back to the rabble that vote for them (just like they're doing know with Apple - how macho of them!).
The biggest difference between the US and EU business practices is that you pretend your on the up-and-up, always taking the high road. Even for the immigrants allowed in, the undercurrent on the (European produced) news pointed out that there weren't enough young people and they were being looked at as a (cheap) labor force. Humanitarian? Not so much.
Maybe it's time you started to accept that your sh*t stinks and stop pointing at our bathrooms as though it changes anything.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
|
|
|
|
|
"do you trust in a legal agreement signed in the EU or not."
The issue was that it wasn't a legal agreement at all. Apple's lawyers should have worked that out. Due dilligence etc.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough."
Alan Kay.
|
|
|
|
|
digimanus wrote: It is typical US Corporations that want to benefit more than it's competitors....
and, of course EU corporations would never think of trying to beat their competitors.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
|
|
|
|
|
CAn EU Companies get 0.005 Tax rate in US?
In Word you can only store 2 bytes. That is why I use Writer.
|
|
|
|
|
More to the point - can US companies get it. If they could they'd not build plants (etc.) in the EU! So - guess what - the federal government does not offer those tax rates to EU Companies (either).
By now, you really get the point:
A contract made by an entity legally entitled to make its own decisions (like a sovereign nation) is responsible to uphold the contract. If they're not so obligated then there's no way for anyone to do any business, certainly not internationally, as there would be absolutely no trust.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
|
|
|
|
|
More to the point - can US companies get it. If they could they'd not build plants (etc.) in the EU! So - guess what - the federal government does not offer those tax rates to EU Companies (either).
Apple has it in Ireland
In Word you can only store 2 bytes. That is why I use Writer.
|
|
|
|
|
digimanus wrote: Apple has it in Ireland
Yeah - I saw the article - and who gave them that rate. It wasn't the US Government. It was the Irish government. Do they run their own country or not? Can they make legal decision about how their nations is to be run . . . or not.
If not, then stop calling the EU members separate countries. They're states or provinces of the EU and they should all drop their individual UN memberships (for example) as, like US states, they're not sovereign entities.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
|
|
|
|
|
In the end it is unfair to other US Companies that do not even get close to that %
In Word you can only store 2 bytes. That is why I use Writer.
|
|
|
|
|
Well - yes - in a way you're right.
It's not fairness to US companies that the EU is concerned with.
It's punishing the success of US companies that are foolish enough to do business in the EU.
Also, grabbing $14 Billion will go a long way towards paying for the refugee crisis whilst they try to find an excuse to fine another US company.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
|
|
|
|
|
Apple made over $250 Billion dollars profit in the EU. And all the Irish employees of Apple is not even 20% of all european Apple workers. Apple Benefits with over $2.5M per Irish Employee with barely paying taxes.
Furthermore Apple collects all there EU sells in Ireland and their they pay taxes not in other EU countries. So the deal with Ireland has effect on the total EU. That is why the announcement was made today. If there is ever gonna be a payment depends on the future. Not only Apple but also Ireland is appealing.
In Word you can only store 2 bytes. That is why I use Writer.
|
|
|
|
|
So - who's idea in the Irish Government was it to make this deal?
Why did they make it? Ireland clearly wasn't thinking about the rest of the EU so I'd suspect there was something in it for them.
Perhaps, instead of adding up how much various places didn't get - add up how much they did get. Perhaps the answer lies there.
Did Apple break any laws or was it Ireland - or perhaps greedy folk on the other side of the channel.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
|
|
|
|
|
Quote: Did Apple break any laws or was it Ireland - or perhaps greedy folk on the other side of the channel.
'
That is why I state about the appeals
In Word you can only store 2 bytes. That is why I use Writer.
|
|
|
|
|
No, they will get a 0% tax rate.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
|
|
|
|
|
W∴ Balboos wrote: If there's a fine to pay it's Ireland's problem.
As I understand it, it's not just fines but also back taxes.
Assuming you're USian, if your company screws up your W-2, it's not the company on the hook for back taxes and penalties to the IRS, it's you. Figure it's pretty much the same case here, just a bit bigger than what you or I would owe Uncle Sam.
|
|
|
|
|
It's exactly the point: Back Taxes - when the agreement they made with the host country was for taxes at a given rate.
As for the W2 error analogy - not correct. The error was in the calculation on an agreement (if you wish to call it that) between the worker and the government in how much tax they are to pay. If the company, acting as their agent, miscalculates it, it doesn't change the agreement between the taxpayer and the government: the rate is still the same.
If, however, the government offered you a tax break for opening up a business in a specific location (and may states do this) - that's there business. The federal government does so, as well. Once the deal's made, if the recipient lives up to their part of the contract then the government cannot simply change the rules - not without compensation.
So - if the taxes were underpaid because Ireland (and others) made deal, it's up to them to uphold the agreement. They made the deal for their own benefit (don't blame everything on Apple) and so they must uphold the deal.
Or, were the Brits more correct than ever in Brexit, lest the EU overrun their country as if it were the EU's own.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
|
|
|
|
|
But a state can't promise to lower my federal taxes - they don't have that authority. We may set up a contract like that, though (If I'm uneducated in how the tax system in the US works), but it's entirely unenforceable.
|
|
|
|
General 
News 
Suggestion 
Question 
Bug 
Answer 
Joke 
Praise 
Rant 
Admin 
Submit an article or tip
