|
jesarg wrote: When large organizations maintain code over long periods of time, non-ideal practices constantly leak in. Hurried developers updating confusing code may be bad for object-oriented code bases but is horrible-to-fatal for functional-style code.
I would appreciate hearing about a specific case of this you have seen. What type of change to code unique to FP would cause problems that would not be flagged at compile time ?
«Where is the Life we have lost in living? Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge? Where is the knowledge we have lost in information?» T. S. Elliot
|
|
|
|
|
The first developer writes code.
The second developer updates the code, despite slightly misunderstanding the first developer's code, making the resulting code confusing and prone to bugs.
The third developer updates the code, while slightly misunderstanding the first developer's code, the second developer's code, and the second developer's misunderstanding of the first developer's code, making the resulting code more confusing and bug-prone.
The fourth developer updates the code, seriously misunderstanding the first developer's code, the second developer's code, the third developer's code, the second developer's misunderstanding of the first developer's code, the third developer's misunderstanding of the first developer's code, the third developer's misunderstanding of the second developer's code, and the third developer's misunderstanding of the second developer's misunderstanding of the first developer's code.
Etc. until maintenance is impossible, bugs never get fixed, and rewrites are demanded.
This problem isn't unique to functional programming, but using a functional style amplifies the compounding negative effects (which is why start-ups have success stories of using functional languages and large organizations don't). When using more procedural styles, the negative side effects of not fully understanding the code being updated are lower.
You can read about project successes and failures with LISP; they don't specifically mention the effect I described, but they seem to have experienced it nonetheless.
http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html
https://www.quora.com/Does-Yahoo-Stores-previously-Viaweb-still-use-Lisp
https://discuss.fogcreek.com/joelonsoftware/default.asp?cmd=show&ixPost=31402
|
|
|
|
|
So in the end it boils down to a simple point: most programmers are not capable of grasping concepts which go beyond simple procedural statements (like if or switch or assignments).
Oh sanctissimi Wilhelmus, Theodorus, et Fredericus!
|
|
|
|
|
@BHiller Or, it boils down to some programmers have a bias, a prejudice, for, or against, FP or OOP ... that they cannot articulate, or cannot describe any specific example they have actually encountered ?
It is inevitable we have biases, and, it is a fact that many programmers tend to "fall in love" with their languages/tools to a certain degree, sometimes comically extreme ... I think of a hilarious encounter I had with a FORTH "messiah" in the 1970's.
I like Gandhi's statement: "I want the winds of all the cultures to blow around my house, but I don't want to be knocked over by any of them."
By the way, I hate VB 
«Where is the Life we have lost in living? Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge? Where is the knowledge we have lost in information?» T. S. Elliot
|
|
|
|
|
The experts in functional programming run each over with messes just like the novices do. It boils down to functional programming giving people more power than they are likely to handle well.
|
|
|
|
|
That's true for quite any programming language/paradigm, even FORTRAN.
Oh sanctissimi Wilhelmus, Theodorus, et Fredericus!
|
|
|
|
|
I asked you for specifics, and you come up with this ? What you describe has nothing specific to do with either OOP or FP.
«Where is the Life we have lost in living? Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge? Where is the knowledge we have lost in information?» T. S. Elliot
|
|
|
|
|
I tend to think of OOP as a Platonic philosophy, a way to express "ideal/pure Forms" and their inclusive/exclusive/hierarchical relations. I really like SOLID as an Aristotelian "techne," a set of principles for how to structure the creation, use, interaction, of the (necessarily imperfect !) instances of those "Forms."
While I see OOP as the best way to model hierarchies, I (currently) wonder how suited it is to typical modern multi-threaded apps driven by asynchronous events ... where any damn thing can happen any damn time 
Is it "right" to indict OOP with the charge of criminal mutability of state ... rather than indict the programmer who does not control access/mutability using the provided tools, such as ... in C# ... Linq, System.Collections.Immutable, and such pedestrian access modifiers as 'readonly ?
«Where is the Life we have lost in living? Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge? Where is the knowledge we have lost in information?» T. S. Elliot
modified 26-Jul-19 12:43pm.
|
|
|
|
|
A recent report from WhiteSource, an open-source security and license compliance management platform, highlights how developers should be in charge of application security and how organizations are investing heavily to produce secure code. You build it, they break it
|
|
|
|
|
“The sky is falling; uninstall VLC right now!” That’s the advice some websites are providing. But the purported VLC flaw is overblown—and, according to VLC’s developers, may not even be a real risk. "Fake news! Fake news!", some guy
|
|
|
|
|
Well, I guess that bug-hunting really isn't rocket science, then.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
|
|
|
|
|
Microsoft has accidentally released an internal-only version of Windows 10 to testers, revealing a new Start menu design Sorry if you were a fan of Live Tiles
Plus, it looks like new icons! Oh, what a glorious world we live in.
|
|
|
|
|
They are probably letting an AI (in learn phase) to commit the changes... that could explain the rollout of their windows updates too  
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
|
|
|
|
|
So how about (and this is crazy, I know) they just show a list of names instead of hieroglyphic-like icons?
We can see more options, more easily.
I think someone mocked up something along the lines of what I'm thinking of here[^]
cheers
Chris Maunder
|
|
|
|
|
But then what would the icon designers do? You don't want them bored and wandering the streets!
TTFN - Kent
|
|
|
|
|
...like packs of rabid dogs, bailing up passer's-by and pummeling them a shower of designs, each indiscernible from the previous.
cheers
Chris Maunder
|
|
|
|
|
You mean do it like the very clever and dedicated people who designed the first start menu did it?
It'll never happen. The brainless egos need to be able to say "This is all my idea! It's never been done before!", no matter how distracting, time-and-resource wasting, and comparatively useless it is.
The only ray of sunshine in this is that live tiles might finally be dead.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
|
|
|
|
|
The Verge said: This new build also included a GIF search tool within the emoji picker for Windows 10.
Well, golly!
Why didn't they open the article with that?
Talk about (incentive-) killer features!
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
|
|
|
|
|
A new working paper suggests that websites are making less money because of the General Data Protection Rule (GDPR). It’s the first study of how the European privacy law affects the revenue of online businesses. Mission accomplished?
|
|
|
|
|
Security is not about making profit; so yes, that costs money.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
|
|
|
|
|
In other news, burglars and muggers make less money because of the laws that allow the police to arrest them for it.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
|
|
|
|
|
The biggest motivators for developers in the workplace are revealed in a new report. Developers like to develop? Mind blown!
My waistline is also enjoying, "opportunities for professional growth"
|
|
|
|
|
Ten years ago, a neuroscientist said that within a decade he could simulate a human brain. Spoiler: It didn’t happen. That upload may take a little longer than planned
|
|
|
|
|
Of course it failed! I told him NOT to use assembly language for the project! He just didn't listen!
|
|
|
|
|
To simulate something we first have to understand it pretty good...
"The only place where Success comes before Work is in the dictionary." Vidal Sassoon, 1928 - 2012
|
|
|
|
General 
News 
Suggestion 
Question 
Bug 
Answer 
Joke 
Praise 
Rant 
Admin 
Submit an article or tip
