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So, here I am continuing to get my learn on with Zig (still not crazy about the name, but whatevs). And you have to endure people saying crap that's so annoying to any intelligent person. Given this C example:
#include <stdio.h>
typedef struct {
int bro;
} bruh;
int main() {
bruh dude = { .bro = 42 };
bruh *pDude = &dude;
printf("o.O %i\n", pDude->bro);
return 0;
}
This would be the same thing in Zig:
const std = @import("std");
const bruh = struct { bro: i32 };
pub fn main() !void {
const dude = bruh{ .bro = 42 };
const pDude = &dude;
const stdout = std.io.getStdOut().writer();
// notice the .* syntax, that's the "reason for the OMGs"
// zig will also automatically dereference one level deep
// so the second syntax will work as well
try stdout.print("o.O {} {}\n", .{ pDude.*.bro, pDude.bro });
}
Then you here people say, "OMG OMG OMG OMG THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER COMPARED TO C", because they can type .* rather than ->. The automatic dereferencing of one level deep is cool, but ya know... peeps acting like this is the cure for cancer.
I dunno about you guys, but I instantly question someone's seniority and talent as a dev when I hear that nonsense. Don't get me wrong, Zig has some really, really nice things. But... bruh. 
Jeremy Falcon
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Why can't it dereference N-deep?
That can't be so hard to make happen?
How does -> work on a deeper nest? Or does it?
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jochance wrote: Why can't it dereference N-deep?
Beats me, I'm still learning. AFAIK, it only goes one level deep, so with a double pointer, I'd still have to use the _* syntax. 72.5% sure on that.
jochance wrote: How does -> work on a deeper nest? Or does it?
By one level deep I mean one pointer level, not nested members.
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: Then you here people say, "OMG OMG OMG OMG THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER COMPARED TO C", because they can type .* rather than ->.
I can absolutely see why the newcomers would say that for sure.
I might make the claim that an experienced developer might prefer having to make the distinction, because the compiler essentially is making you aware of the situation, forcing you to think carefully about it and to acknowledge that yes, there is indirection involved and this is what you meant. As opposed to having things just happen to magically fall into place ("do I need the indirection or not? who cares...").
I haven't done C/C++ in 18+ (?) years, and I remember it took me a long time to fully wrap my head around pointers and this sort of thing. But once the light switch came on, it suddenly all made a lot of sense, and I've always been okay with these sorts of idiosyncrasies since.
I wonder how well I would do if I had to go back. Going over your sample, it still makes sense to me and I didn't have to think twice.
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dandy72 wrote: I might make the claim that an experienced developer might prefer having to make the distinction
100% agree. I personally think the distinction isn't a bad thing. Fortunately, the Zig compiler will catch boo boos, but there's nothing wrong with the older syntax. But you know how it is with the younger generation... doesn't matter what it is as long its new and feels like it's theirs.
dandy72 wrote: and I remember it took me a long time to fully wrap my head around pointers and this sort of thing.
Probably didn't help to see code examples like ****pSomething either. They're powerful though, especially when memory constraint is a concern, which IMO even in a system with a large amount of RAM a program shouldn't be too careless with memory. But, if they're abused then it's a mess... kinda like macros.
All the hate for JavaScript (by those who pretend to know it but don't), but that's one thing JavaScript does really well... once you understand it. Just about every variable's value is a reference to a table entry in memory and copying a variable just literally does a shallow copy with a reference to the same entry, which is akin to pointers in concept.
dandy72 wrote: I wonder how well I would do if I had to go back. Going over your sample, it still makes sense to me and I didn't have to think twice.
I think you would man. The stuff comes back once you dust off the cobwebs a bit.
Jeremy Falcon
modified 15-Aug-24 15:39pm.
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: Probably didn't help to see code examples like ****pSomething either
I remember seeing these sorts of things in samples that were designed to test your comprehension. I was hopeless at first, but as mentioned, once I "got" it, it became second nature and I've remained unfazed by them ever since. Of course I'd avoid intentionally writing such code, but if I was presented with something like that, I could always deal with it.
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If everyone had stuck to C the world would be a better place. 
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I'd consider starting a spam/scam based "marketing" campaign for them.
Email spam. Codeproject spam. Robocalls.
I for one, once receiving spam, I *do* remember the company that's being advertised.
Like "Skyline Packaging"
Which I will *never* *ever* use now.
Check out my IoT graphics library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx
And my IoT UI/User Experience library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix
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Picture people submitting the spam they receive to some global entity that then validates, aggregates and publishes a blacklist.
Host it at, I dunno, www.boycottknownspammers.com. You're welcome.
I suspect there wouldn't be many companies left in the world that wouldn't eventually make their way on the list.
[Edit]
Include numbers. The more spam they send, the higher on the list they end up.
There's a business model in there somewhere. Somebody please make it happen.
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honey the codewitch wrote: Which I will *never* *ever* use now.
I've been saying this for years, and I plan to stick by it, too!
No sense in reinforcing bad behavior by shopping for their products...
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I use Linux almost exclusive except when I can't. And then I just Remmina(RDP) into whatever I need to do or spin up a VM. So today I got a new lappy and immediately put a flavor of Linux Debian on it. So far on my default I have the following installed. What would you add to yours. Curious to see the answers.
Joplin Notes
Brave Web Browser - Personal Stuff only
Firefox - Work related only
Remmina for RDP to Windows Servers
Microsoft Teams client (I know but I must)
notepadqq
cisco anyconnect - which was a pain to get working.
WPS 2019 Office for dealing with Microsoft Business Central Config Packages. Works wonderfully
vsCode
Android Studio
To err is human to really elephant it up you need a computer
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Evolution as e-mail client.
I use it not only for work related stuff (Exchange Server connection for one customer via EWS, works sooooo much better than Outlook) but also to connect to my personal e-mail (Proton Mail).
And it is a standard package.
Other things depend on what you do.
I also use Remmina as RDP-client
For Teams I use the flatpak version, it seems more stable than the native package.
Perhaps OnlyOffice as Word/Excel replacement if you only need the basics, it does all that I need, otherways I'd suggest LibreOffice.
If you need to edit pdf-files you should take a look at MasterPDF Editor (not free but doesn't cost too much).
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for Teams, I did mean the flatpak version. Sorry wasn't clear on that.
For some reason LibreOffice doesn't work well with alot of what we do here. I have found that WPS works amazingly well. But it doesn't work with my old LibreOffice files. So I end up using both.
MasterPDF never heard of it before. But I must say after checking it out. Very nice. Not sure I want to buy it yet. But certainly going on the list.
To err is human to really elephant it up you need a computer
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Teams - I tried to add some years ago but then it was much crappier than the web version. I use web for Teams and Outlook
Terminator - a pretty nifty terminal emulator, open src and free
Vivaldi - the least annoying web browser I could find
LibreOffice - for all dox
Slack - for work chat
Spotify - for music
vs code - ofc goes without saying
ffmpeg & other video apps - for my job
"If we don't change direction, we'll end up where we're going"
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rnbergren wrote: What would you add to yours. Curious to see the answers.
zsh
zsh-autosuggestions (this will change your life)
tmux (don't ask why, just install it... you'll thank me)
build-essentials (gcc, make, etc.)
maybe clang or cmake, just depends
vscode
sublime text
git
beyond compare
libre office, for the word and excel knock off
vlc, not to play videos but just to help convert
an audio player (like rhythmbox)
a video player (default is fine)
nvm & node
flatpak (if it's not installed already)
a calculator app if one isn't installed already, just depends on distro
openssh if not already installed
a color picker
vim-gui-common package, for my themes... themes be nice
For the browser I typically use Firefox. No particular reason besides it's just already installed by default.
Jeremy Falcon
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Oh, and here recently... zig.
Jeremy Falcon
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Libre Office
Chrome
VLC
Handbrake
PeaZip
Pinta (for basic graphics editing, simpler than GIMP)
Pika Backup
Gnome Boxes (to host a couple VMs)
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I use Krita for dealing with images. anything to avoid GIMP. I know it is powerful. But the learning curve.
To err is human to really elephant it up you need a computer
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Depends on what you use your PC for.
For work, I'd consider Typora or Obsidian for markdown editing. At home I use LyX rather than LibreOffice, but some kind of office product is probably a good idea.
For gaming, and for the odd thing that arises, perhaps Wine.
If you edit movies, KDEnlive, if you write CD's K3B, if you edit images Gimp, etc.
Oh, and something to do backups. DejaDup is what I use, but I used to use Rsynch and later Unison.
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I have Ubuntu installed in Virtual Box on my workstation-laptop.
I really like it as it has come a long way from when I first began tinkering with it.
However, as a developer, Visual Studio is still the best IDE available, and I have tried quite a few, including Jet Brains' "Rider". I have Rider installed in Ubuntu and was tinkering with it when it crashed the entire VM.
Jet Brains has some great products. I have both their Python IDE, PyCharm, and PHP IDE, PhpStorm. I love the PyCharm as it just works both under Windows and Linux when you get used to its interface.
Unfortunately, I believe Jet Brains took on more than they could chew with Rider. As a WPF developer, Rider is not all that mature as it still doesn't have a control toolbox, which I use just to get the basic XAML generated. Everything else, I do manually in the editor.
So for me, as of now, there is still no real quality C#\VB.NET IDE under Linux and with the complexity of my work I am not interested in rewriting everything in Python, though it is tempting.
As for WPS, it was my go-to MS-Office alternative until they implemented their AI spellchecker, which was a major annoyance so a lot of us WPS users complained and dropped the product.
I switched to LibreOffice, which I have under Ubuntu as well. This software has come a long way from its early days making it now a stand-up tool for what we need it for.
I would like to eventually switch over everything to Linux, or at least make my development cross-platform. As a result, I am experimenting with the Avalonia-UI software to see how it runs under Linux with .NET Core 8.
Microsoft still has no plans to make a version of Visual Studio for Linux but hopefully the pressures will mount and they will eventually have to...
Steve Naidamast
Sr. Software Engineer
Black Falcon Software, Inc.
blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
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I always go Debian Testing for desktop. Reading the replies, I feel like a troglodyte.
- Editor: neovim
- Webbrowser: qutebrowser
- Email: Thunderbird
- Window manager: bspwm
- Launcher and custom menus: jgmenu
- Terminal: st
- Sync: NextCloud Desktop
- VPN: wireguard
- a bunch of developer tools
- other things
But I'm tied to Windows at work in a walled garden setting, so WSL is the sad workaround there.
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Switched to Linux about a month after Windows 8.0 came out. Here's my list which is pretty much what I ran under Windows:
Libre Office
Thunderbird
Vivaldi
Firefox
jEdit
g++
I do run a Windows VM for games that don't yet work under Linux, Affinity Photo (I just hate Gimp) and TurboTax. I'm retired so all the work related stuff I use to have is gone!
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And I tried, I really did: a full load in the washing machine, pressure cooker making bulk mashed potatoes, my hot evening meal swapped to lunchtime (beef stew and dumplings), a batch of ice cream in the maker*, loads of washing up, and a whole bunch of heaters because it's a bit on the cool side today.
And how much did I get for free? £1.15 (US$1.47) ... 
I guess it was worth it - it's all stuff I've been wanting to do but either hadn't got around to or didn't need to for a few days. But I do feel a little cheated, which is weird, because normally I want my electricity a whole load cheaper than I have to pay!
* Salted caramel if you are interested.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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and you were using the heaters outside while sipping your tea on the patio?
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Well, on the bright side, you got all those things done.
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