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Totally missed that. Thanks!
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I was looking at physical distances between keys and I see that in most cases where each value is far from the next value they tend to be "more rare".
Or, stated another way, "if your finger is already there, you probably pick something closeby".
If you typed a 2 you probably type a 1 or 3 or maybe 5 next. The physical layout of the keypad does a lot to "force" certain combinations, I think.
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That's what I get for responding to a stale screen and not updating before I post. Wasn't trying to steal thunder or anything.
I’ve given up trying to be calm. However, I am open to feeling slightly less agitated.
I’m begging you for the benefit of everyone, don’t be STUPID.
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7410 is down the left hand side of the number keys pad of a full size keyboard. 8520 is the middle, it gets zero too since the zero key is usually a double width key.
No idea about the 7942 though.
I’ve given up trying to be calm. However, I am open to feeling slightly less agitated.
I’m begging you for the benefit of everyone, don’t be STUPID.
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Banks (in India, most probably elsewhere too) block the login after three incorrect PIN entries (to unlock which the customer has to complete some formalities after visiting a bank branch). So, the customer has at least some protection.
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In Switzerland and surely other western European countries (France for sure), PINs are 6 digits, also with a three-try limit, after which the card is swallowed (in an ATM) and simply blocked until the bank issues another PIN or even a new card.
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I have yet to understand how PIN numbers are more secure than passwords. Face it, there are only 10,000 combinations, yet even an alphabetic, case insensitive, PIN would have 456,976 combinations. I would expect being able to brute force a pin number, regardless of length, would be easy for modern computers that can break 128-bit key based encryption systems in hours.
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They are not necessarily safer, just a lot more convenient.
I think the banking industry (where PIN are used a lot ) weighted the pros and cons of 4 or 5 digits PIN and decided that there is a risk, but it's manageable.
Also, I can't imagine having an ATM with a full keyboard and my dad trying to enter his password.
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
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Your pasword must contain ...[^]
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Sanskrit, Cyrillic, Latin, Chinese, and Arabic characters should be enough for everyone!
FYI, you'd be amazed at how hard it is for most applications/websites/passwords to deal with 2 different sets of alphabets.
Bond
Keep all things as simple as possible, but no simpler. -said someone, somewhere
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obermd wrote: I have yet to understand how PIN numbers are more secure than passwords.
It is most likely a numeric pin and not a password because manufacturing and maintaining a numeric keypad ATM machine is far more economical than producing one with a full fledged QWERTY keyboard. It almost always comes down to the costs.
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obermd wrote:
I have yet to understand how PIN numbers are more secure than passwords. Face it, there are only 10,000 combinations, yet even an alphabetic, case insensitive, PIN would have 456,976 combinations. I would expect being able to brute force a pin number, regardless of length, would be easy for modern computers that can break 128-bit key based encryption systems in hours.
I wondered that too for a long while. If you dig into the various places where PINs are used, you will find that anywhere a PIN is used, there is strong protection behind it to back it up.
PINs generally have very strong limitations on how many times you can get them wrong (i.e. 3 times) -- because failure lockout reset can be controlled externally by more secure methods (2FA, MFA, big brother style behavior pattern matching, etc.)
Offline attacks toward a PIN tend not to work because the PIN is not the primary secret. So the use limitation of the PIN protects the use of the much stronger public/private key encryption which protects the actual data you wish to protect.
Credit/debit cards have those cryptography chips now -- those hold the public/private key encryption, locked into read-only memory in nanometer scale size, and the PIN protects the use of that strong encryption, any funny business using it -- and that strong encryption becomes invalid -- it's new card time.
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OriginalGriff wrote: 1234
"That's amazing. I've got the same combination on my luggage." 
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
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"I've lost the bleeps. I've lost the creeps. And I've lost the sweeps."
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"How many assholes have we got on this ship anyway?"
YO!
Software Zen: delete this;
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"I am your father's brother's, nephew's, cousin's, former roomate."
"What does that make us?"
"Absolutely nothing."
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I use the last 4 digits of old phone numbers I've had, like from my childhood.
I'm not likely to forget them, and good luck tying them to me.
Check out my IoT graphics library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx
And my IoT UI/User Experience library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix
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honey the codewitch wrote: good luck tying them to me.
My phone number (number*s*, now that I've joined the club and carry a phone) has had the same last 4 digits for my entire life...
If I used that as my PIN, anyone who knows my phone number would have a pretty good chance at guessing it.
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You have the same phone number you did when you were a child? 
Check out my IoT graphics library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/gfx
And my IoT UI/User Experience library here:
https://honeythecodewitch.com/uix
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Cell phones have been around long enough, twentysomethings very well could.
Of course I'm old enough they've changed the numbering system since we banged rocks together when I was little  .
Software Zen: delete this;
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I do the same thing -- a landline number that hasn't existed in 30 years since my folks sold my childhood house.
Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss.
Lazarus Long, "Time Enough For Love" by Robert A. Heinlein
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That's clever.
There are no solutions, only trade-offs. - Thomas Sowell
A day can really slip by when you're deliberately avoiding what you're supposed to do.
- Calvin (Bill Watterson, Calvin & Hobbes)
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Now someone needs to pin this post. We should probably do it in numbers.
I’ve given up trying to be calm. However, I am open to feeling slightly less agitated.
I’m begging you for the benefit of everyone, don’t be STUPID.
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As having personally used a pin number I had to guess in order to use, I'd have to say "It's not how you used the pin number to "get in", it's how do you change it that really matters".
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Whelp! Time to change all my pins to more secure ones! 9596 it is!
/s
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