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Apple used to reign supreme at providing a simple, obvious UI for their products. The iPhone famously doesn't even come with a user manual, which is astounding given it was one of the (if not the) most sophisticated and complex consumer devices launched.
They Just Worked. Further, they were fairly obvious in how they worked.
But how times have changed.
Each iteration of the OS and the associated apps seem to involve more and more hidden UI cues. Jakob Neilson once railed against poorly discoverable UIs and it seems Apple is going deeper and deeper down that path. iTunes on the desktop and on the mobile device are two very different beasts, but they share a multiple personality disorder when it comes to trying to understand how the UI works. Is it a menu at the top? A sidebar? Is it a section heading that's actually a dropdown menu that switches the context in exactly the way (but different!) to the icons in the bottom bar? It's turned into a huge guessing game.
I think I'm going to send the Apple UX guys a copy of the book Don't Make Me Think: A Common Sense Approach to Web Usability[^]
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote: Apple used to reign supreme at providing a simple, obvious UI for their
products. The iPhone famously doesn't even come with a user manual, which is
astounding given it was one of the (if not the) most sophisticated and complex
consumer devices launched.
Made me laugh 
I remember the DOS 5 manual, you could kill a man with it. Then came Windows, with no manual at all. I think that a desktop is a somewhat complexer environment than a phone. The ux-guide for the common controls has been around for quite some time, so we are talking about a tested and well-documented framework here, recognized by most people who touched a PC.
Still, it is a dumbed-down interface compared to any command-line. Making the buttons bigger and giving yet even less options is more of designing for toddlers.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Note I said "consumer device".
Maybe I'm sheltered, but from memory every consumer device (including those tiny MP4 players) came with manuals in 10 languages that told you everything except how to most efficiently throw it against the wall when it stopped working.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote: Note I said "consumer device".
Noted. Please do take note that Personal Computers have replaced the so-called Home Computer.
Chris Maunder wrote: Maybe I'm sheltered, but from memory every consumer device (including those tiny
MP4 players) came with manuals in 10 languages that told you everything except
how to most efficiently throw it against the wall when it stopped working.
Even my mechanical alarm-clock with bells has a manual in umpteen different languages. Nearly everything comes with a set of instructions, a DISCLAIMER IN CAPS, a copyright notice, a trade-mark notice, list of ingredients, whether it is kosher or not and no real instructional value. The last VCR I have seen came with a manual that would make you cry as much as some XML-generated comments generated from source-code.
You were talking however about UI-design on consumer-devices, something mostly dictated by the OS. I would say that the Workbench from the Amiga is still superiour, but in terms of killing documentation on consumer-devices, I'd say Windows was a step ahead.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Quote: I would say that the Workbench from the Amiga is still superiour,
I must admit I agree it worked and the right mouse button was sense. I had to use Windows 3 at the time no comparison
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Ah, how I used to love reading the manuals from the far east in those days of yore. The English was so bad it was comical.
I may not last forever but the mess I leave behind certainly will.
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Apple made a weird/bad/awful decision to merge both the legacy iTunes player and the new Music player.
I personally have no issue with iTunes for music player, but the integration with Music make me want to bark all over my keyboard.
I'd rather be phishing!
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Maximilien wrote: ...make me want to bark all over my keyboard.
Since k and f are no where near each other, I can only assume you indeed want to utter dog or seal-like noises. 
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles
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Chris Maunder wrote: it was one of the (if not the) most sophisticated and complex consumer devices launched
LMAO.
Decrease the belief in God, and you increase the numbers of those who wish to play at being God by being “society’s supervisors,” who deny the existence of divine standards, but are very serious about imposing their own standards on society.-Neal A. Maxwell
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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Indeed. At the time, the iPhone was one of the must dumbed down featureless phones available compared to pretty much every other smart phone that was available at the time.
A lot of people seem to forget that.
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My prediction is Apple will go the way of Walmart. Steve Jobs was extremely influential in that company, just like Sam Walton was with Walmart. Walmart went to sh*t now because he's gone, and I expect Apple will be no different. Right now, they're just riding on the coattails of what Steve built, but that won't last forever.
Jeremy Falcon
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Not so sure.
Product quality has never been a concern in the "apple purchasing decision" - most of 'em are sold to people who would buy a turd if it was polished and stamped with the logo because if they don't their mates will laugh at them.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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That's presumptuous.
Jeremy Falcon
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Really? There's a whole lot of evidence to what he says.
Decrease the belief in God, and you increase the numbers of those who wish to play at being God by being “society’s supervisors,” who deny the existence of divine standards, but are very serious about imposing their own standards on society.-Neal A. Maxwell
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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I don't have time for this anymore in life. Bye bye.
Jeremy Falcon
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Good call. Me neither.
Decrease the belief in God, and you increase the numbers of those who wish to play at being God by being “society’s supervisors,” who deny the existence of divine standards, but are very serious about imposing their own standards on society.-Neal A. Maxwell
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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I knew an electronics engineer who took an iPad apart and he said that the design of the product was of an extremely high quality.
The only Apple product I have is one of the old iPods with an 80gb hard drive.
I have tried to persuade myself to buy an iPhone or iPad, however whenever I do this and weigh up the benefits and costs I always find that I already have everything that these two pieces of hardware would provide.
The way I see it is that Apple products are luxury products aimed at the top end of the market, price-wise, at a price most Western working people can just about afford - however I have no need for luxury electronic goods, which is why I don't pay that extra to get that little bit less(Apple locking everything down).
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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It's not just Walmart, remember that Apple itself has already gone through that after Jobs was fired.
The question is, how long will it take this time around?
Considering they have a few hundred billions sitting in the bank doing nothing, I suspect a lot longer...
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dandy72 wrote: Considering they have a few hundred billions sitting in the bank doing nothing
I'll gladly babysit it. 
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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RyanDev wrote: I'll gladly babysit it
They already have Ireland for that.
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Good point. I suppose it's time for me to become a Linux fanboy. 
Jeremy Falcon
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Apple worked (and succeeded) because they concentrated effort on a few select devices and built software (from the OS up) for these select devices. They never worried about backwards compatibility, because they knew that their customers would follow them wherever they went. This allowed them to concentrate on building very useable devices. Sadly, in the post Steve Jobs world, we see them spreading themselves thinner and thinner, becoming more of a fashion brand than a technology brand. As long as people are using their products, and pouring money into the closed garden, Apple will survive; but if they don't do something drastic and surprising I can see them being considerably less significant in 10-15 years.
Er, I can't think of a funny signature right now.
How about a good fart to break the silence?
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: Walmart went to sh*t now
Interesting. I think Walmart is better than it ever has been, especially since they came online with their website.
Perhaps the location makes a difference. 
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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I shop at Walmart as a last resort; I detest having 15 or more check out stations with only 1 or 2 open and a line of people at each one.
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Tim Carmichael wrote: I detest having 15 or more check out stations with only 1 or 2 open and a line of people at each one.
That doesn't happen at the 1 or 2 that I shop at. 
Self-checkout is great; unless you have a lot of stuff.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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