|
Marc, well put.
Have you noticed how programmers LOVE puzzles and complexity? Seeming for complexity's sake? Or maybe it's for job security. The more difficult coding is the more secure your job and career.
Software vendors don't really have ANY incentive to make things simpler, better, or easier. On the contrary, it's in their commercial interest to make things as difficult and complex as possible so customers and users get "locked in" to their eco-system. So where's the progress to next generation software going to come from?
Have you also noticed how open source really does not generate new ideas just coding versions of existing ideas?
And why don't people start really innovative open source or even semi-closed source projects to take us to better coding and better software?
Could your project be a joint project that would help us all?
- Grant
|
|
|
|
|
C Grant Anderson wrote: Have you noticed how programmers LOVE puzzles and complexity? Seeming for complexity's sake?
Sometimes I think that complexity naturally evolves because people are really bad at analytical thinking, which creates unnecessary complexity resulting from bad design/implementation. I can see that very thing happen with systems I've worked on, and it takes effort to force myself to re-architect rather than create complexity with patches. This, BTW, is why I hate refactoring.
C Grant Anderson wrote: It's in their commercial interest to make things as difficult and complex as possible so customers and users get "locked in" to their eco-system.
Agreed. But it doesn't need to be difficult or complex, just deeply embedded. If I start using DevExpress controls, or build a website using Twitter-Bootstrap, there's no way I'm going to switch mid-stream. Well, maybe with DevExpress I could if had the foresight to wrap its controls in an abstraction layer.
C Grant Anderson wrote: Have you also noticed how open source really does not generate new ideas just coding versions of existing ideas?
Mostly true. There is some really innovative stuff out there, but nobody uses it for that reason, unless it's really necessary for the project.
C Grant Anderson wrote: Could your project be a joint project that would help us all?
That's the intention. I started goofing around with the idea in Ruby on Rails[^] and have been poking around with a C# implementation using the HtmlAgilityPack, but it's still in its infancy. I'm also looking for people to donate time to this innovative work[^].
Marc
|
|
|
|
|
I'm surprised no one has stated one of the biggest advantages that you get out of the MVC side over ASP.NET - no ViewState by default. Man, what a fetid pile of crodspittle ViewState is and it's amazing how many people never bothered to turn the darn thing off.
|
|
|
|
|
Pete O'Hanlon wrote: Man, what a fetid pile of crodspittle ViewState is and it's amazing how many people never bothered to turn the darn thing off.
Or more accurately: (*&q#(*@$View(*&^&(*&^&**%State&*%%^&%**
Let's see how many people get it.
Jeremy Falcon
|
|
|
|
|
I think I misspoke - I meant the ASPX *view engine* as opposed to ASP.Net.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010 ----- You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010 ----- When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
|
|
|
|
|
Ah, I possibly misunderstood. I'm rushing to get a release out the door and while the CI build is underway, I'm answering posts. I really should have given an eminent gentleman like yourself more attention.
|
|
|
|
|
Pete O'Hanlon wrote: I really should have given an eminent gentleman like yourself more attention.
And the fact that JSOP uses guns should be a more encouraging factor to give him more attention.
|
|
|
|
|
Given the vast distances involved, I'm not that worried.
|
|
|
|
|
As long as you don't breach my 600 yard security perimeter, you're fine.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010 ----- You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010 ----- When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
|
|
|
|
|
As I read the post OP doesn't ask about MVC vs WebForms but ASP.NET view engine vs Razor view engine...
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
|
|
|
|
|
Yeah, I got that on the reread. Still, it's worth a rant about ViewState.
|
|
|
|
|
Kill ViewState!!!
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
|
|
|
|
|
Yeah, I'm not a fan of viewstate either.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010 ----- You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010 ----- When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
|
|
|
|
|
I can't find the article that I read on Razor over ASP.NET but taking over the syntax / less is more argument.
I read that the razor engine is supposed to lightweight compare to asp.net and also faster.
Every day, thousands of innocent plants are killed by vegetarians.
Help end the violence EAT BACON
|
|
|
|
|
There is no advantages of Razor engine over ASP.NET engine...In fact ASP.NET engine slightly faster...
I think Marc is right it was created to bring RoR users over, by showing how easy the migration can be...
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
|
|
|
|
|
|
I'm currently working on an MVC app myself. The only difference I found between the two is just a matter of preference. If you're used to the ASP.NET syntax of doing things, the ASPX engine would probably make more sense to you.
Razor takes some getting used to and I'm finding more examples of the Razor view code when Googling problems than I am using ASPX.
|
|
|
|
|
Dave Kreskowiak wrote: I'm finding more examples of the Razor view code when Googling problems than I am using ASPX
The most valid reason for using Razor IMHO.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
|
|
|
|
|
Functionally Razor and ASP are equivalent I suppose , though razor does auto html-encode stuff after the @ . Around the time Razor came out, Scott Gu wrote this[^], the looping/conditional statement syntax is all kinds of win for me, I've yet to find a neat way to line up the <% brackets, especially around the curly braces.
tldr; pretty much nothing, unless you want a terser syntax (which I prefer).
|
|
|
|
|
It's the same as any 'which language is better' question, e.g. C# vs VB.net vs F#. They are functionally equivalent so use whichever one you like more.
|
|
|
|
|
Exactly, as an experienced developer you are likely to have patterns that accomplish things as well as MVC, in many cases your coding patterns may be more appropriate and better for any given situation(at least that's what I like to tell myself).
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
|
|
|
|
|
I use it because I love C#. But realistically IIS is the wrong tool for the job I want to do. I wish I could have a simple to configure Web Server that easily scaled, didn't have myriads of problems with permissions, and doesn't "recycle" because it wants to.
If there were a way to use C# and ASP.NET without IIS I think I would. (Then again, I have done 0 research with that statement)
|
|
|
|
|
I don't know what the current level of support is like under Apache, but it used to be a little tedious do set it up to serve .Net. Things may have improved and been updated since that time (2007 or so).
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010 ----- You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010 ----- When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
|
|
|
|
|
I've written systems that do that, and it's a huge pain in the ass. While IIS has to be configured for some of the issues you brought up, I don't think anyone else will build a faster more scalable web server for windows. They moved http processing into a driver to optimize performance.
|
|
|
|
|
I use MVC for the web api
I use it because I have limited experience in the web and advanced knowledge in none web, so I use what I know.
That is the deciding factor for just about every situation that I need to choose a language.
Go with what you know best.
|
|
|
|