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I understand that CSS is not everyone's thing, but I wouldn't call it unusable. I think what frustrates many users is that while it is simple to use in a basic way, it can be difficult to use well. A lot of the burden for organization is on the user, and you do need a strategy and a knowledge of the whole application in order to use it economically. There is something of a craft to it, which I realize is not something everyone feels should be required of them. Because there are so many ways to do the same thing, more important than the immediate CSS rules is the planning and organization.
CSS would not be usable if it produced errors, or if the browsers weren't so tolerant of bad CSS. You really do need to take the time and get the basics of specificity and selectors first. Some of the layout concepts can take a while to gel, and you do still need to deal with some browser differences (although it's a lot better now than it used to be). But after a while I began to appreciate how much you can get done with very little code, once you have the hierarchy of styles established for the application, it becomes very predictable.
I see a lot of people hate on CSS, but very often specific issues turn out to be known and solvable. I can see why it can be seen as chaotic and unplanned, but I think it's better to think of it as very open-ended, and better to re-adjust expectations on what's needed to use it.
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Blazor is indeed very interesting. If it was launched before I had to learn javascript I would probably never learn it. But I kinda like it now (javascript) it is messy in a beautifull way
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well, i wasn't sure that you hated me before, but now i am.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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Na, it does the job. More or less. I reckon that it does not *completely* fullfill that other requirement of yours that it should not make web development suck.
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in 2006 microsoft was finally embarrassed enough to discontinue it and instead hide its functionality in sharepoint.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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I think it's burried just next to clippy.
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I killed clippy myself, and I'll never tell where i hid the body, except it's the first place you'd look if it wasn't the last place you'd expect.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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Wow, I just had a flashback to PWS and the little merlin looking character! Fun times!
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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I wrote a kids' educational package using that Merlin animated character. Fitted onto 5 floppy disks and was a lot of fun. Written in VB3... happy days. (No, really!)
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With my limited experience with web technologies and having spent some time with the various libraries.
I have found that DHMLX works far better than some other supposedly better coded ones, e.g. Telerik ones. Using such libraries shaves off a lot of development effort.
Also, DHTMLX has far better documentation that any I've seen.
And the magic you're looking for is called JavaScript, there's also bootstrap.
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you're probably right about the javascript, as I've had better luck sanitizing, or rather "sanifying" my code using say, jquery than i have using CSS 3 - the layout issues still plague me. There's so many corner cases
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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I have been using bootstrap's CSS library for almost all my development and it more or less does the job well.
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a lot of people use that. i have at times, but it's still a slog
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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honey the codewitch wrote: There's so many corner cases True, but at least we now have border-radius ... remember when we had to position <img> tags over the corners to get rounded borders?
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that's not quite what i meant
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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I know...
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honey the codewitch wrote: is there a better way to do it? I have found that repeatedly banging my head against a wall, while swearing and wailing, lessens the suckiness of web development.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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i'm not sure how i feel about that.
On one hand, misery loves company.
On the other, it means it's less likely I'm missing The Big Secret that makes it all work happily.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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In all seriousness I am not sure there is a perfect solution for web development.
Every time I hear someone enthuse about a new amazing framework that solves one issue it always brings another issue with it.
That said if I was starting from scratch I would perhaps use React for the front end, microservices on the .NET side(.NET core even using a repository/orchestrator pattern) and as a datastore use something like MongoDB.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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There are two reasons why I still smoke:
0: web development
1: extrovert in-laws/neighbors/acquaintances who require daily therapy
My workload has shifted over the last several years so that I now spend at least half of my time on web development. The only things that makes it bearable are improved IDEs, jQuery, massive q/a resources, and enough time (around 20 years) doing it to build a decent warchest of JavaScript functions...some of the oldest still work!
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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yeah, *sigh* that's like I figured the landscape would be. *headdesk*
that's also how you know you are working with something that is a Big Ball of Mud
Maybe if we took a few of the more active working group committee members hostage they'd step up their game.
When I was growin' up, I was the smartest kid I knew. Maybe that was just because I didn't know that many kids. All I know is now I feel the opposite.
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I agree with you: web "programming" is a bloody mess; a Frankenstein chimera of mark-ups and toy-language mutated into Godzilla.
Cross platform = Death by a hundred Frameworks.
However, I see some beacons of light, like the work my old friend Andrej (Lidor Systems) is doing with his Angular controls that can be used for stand alone apps, as well as with servers.
cheers, Bill
«Where is the Life we have lost in living? Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge? Where is the knowledge we have lost in information?» T. S. Elliot
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