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Rajesh R Subramanian wrote: No, but uncle Matt from Nebrohoma read on the interwebz that BA offshored their work two years ago, and that's all he needs to know.
Bloody Indians, coming over here and taking our jobs.
Michael Martin
Australia
"I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible."
- Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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Rajesh R Subramanian wrote: Nebrohoma
Neither reference is KSS. Hybridized like that is bordering unholy!
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Munchies_Matt wrote: Offshoring, it is not worth it. The quality goes through the floor.
It's never been a good idea and this simply highlights that. My experience with offshoring is that it starts cheap and gets expensive.
To paraphrase Red Adair, "If you think it's expensive to hire local talent, wait till you offshore..."
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You wouldnt believe the crap I have seen coming from an offshore team. It was a driver. They had absoloutely no idea what they were doing, and cobbled together two code samples from the WDK.
It was as unstable as sh*t. Had as many variants as there were products (i was that closely coupled to the hardware).
Their git layout was a mess, their testing was ineffective, and their understanding of the technical domain and tools almost zero.
And a big, I mean massive, global company relied on them for this driver.
Needless to say that I, as a contractor, though expensive, was much cheaper than an entire office offshore, staffed by at least 6 to 10 people, and produced, in a few months, a better driver.
After the dev cycle was complete it was handed over to this offshore team to maintain!  What a dumbass decision.
Oh well, it is their loss.
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Sounds pretty typical and it happens because boards put bean counters or "professional managers" in charge of IT - always doomed to failure. The best places I have worked at have had techies in charge of tech - nothing else works.
Perhaps this thread should be sent to the dumbass in charge at BA. 
Side note: I have sworn by BA for years but no longer - American Airlines or Air New Zealand have a far better product and BA make it next to impossible to use Avios to book flights.
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I read somewhere that the problem began with a faulty power supply. Not that that was reliable information. And seriously, a power supply? To what, the Internet?
Marc
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Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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Fight Club already explained this..
Quote: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
British Airways, same thing.. if the cost of this is less than the cost of having IT based in the UK, then they're still winning.
Now is it bad enough that you let somebody else kick your butts without you trying to do it to each other? Now if we're all talking about the same man, and I think we are... it appears he's got a rather growing collection of our bikes.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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150 million it is costing them so far.
Lets say they saved 20K a year for those 700 jobs, that is only 14 million.
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That's what insurance is for
Now is it bad enough that you let somebody else kick your butts without you trying to do it to each other? Now if we're all talking about the same man, and I think we are... it appears he's got a rather growing collection of our bikes.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Per year and someone mentioned 2 year ago so 28mil and they will have some sort of insurance coverage to mitigate the cost so they probably still see it as viable.
Assuming of course it was a software problem and not a power supply.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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Someone mentioning 2 years ago is irrelevant, the news is reporting last year.
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That only works until the shareholders get pissed off with the reputational hit which impacts their dividends.
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That's tomorrow's problem. Today it's champagne, cigars and a large cash withdrawl!
Now is it bad enough that you let somebody else kick your butts without you trying to do it to each other? Now if we're all talking about the same man, and I think we are... it appears he's got a rather growing collection of our bikes.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Offshoring is a relative term. If I sent work to your country, I'd be offshoring.
We used a group from India before and had very good results. You have to find the right people to work with.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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You got lucky. I have heard many stories saying otherwise, and seen the same myself.
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Munchies_Matt wrote: You got lucky.
Possibly. We managed it quite well though.
Munchies_Matt wrote: I have heard many stories saying otherwise, and seen the same myself
Yes, me too.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Did you manage the workers directly at all?
I think when done this way it goes better.
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Munchies_Matt wrote: Did you manage the workers directly at all?
Yes. And we had a phone call everyday and followed the parts of SCRUM that I liked. I also gave them very clear design specifications. They did a really good job. I think you need to set standards and move on if they can't meet them. Just like you would if you hired a developer.
I think it is funny in a worldwide website for most people to complain about offshoring. Like I said, you would be offshoring to me and I to you. So,all offshoring can't be that bad. 
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Ah, yes, when managed this closely, and managed by westerners, they do better.
I think it is cultural. Not many cultures find it easy to say to a manager/customer 'no, it cant be done' or 'that is impossible'. 'Problem management'. Instead of facing up to problems they pretend they dont exist, then the day before delivery....
Managed directly this cultural issue goes away (because you are doing the 'problem management') but it can be very difficult to extract a direct answer from an Indian. Did you find this too? That you have to ask again and again until you eventually get to the bottom of an issue, or an answer?
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Munchies_Matt wrote: Did you find this too? That you have to ask again and again until you eventually get to the bottom of an issue, or an answer?
With the first group we had, yes. We then asked for others and got some really good developers.
Many people were looking to save money and India stepped up and made that an option, and then people found out it really did not save money in the end.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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RyanDev wrote: and then people found out it really did not save money in the end.
So the process went well, but you didnt actually end up saving any money? 
Did you work out why?
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Munchies_Matt wrote: but you didnt actually end up saving any money?
Oh, no, we did. I'm saying that in general, it has not worked out for most people. I was agreeing with your original statement as a general statement.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Ah, OK.
I think part of the drive to offshore these days is also the sheer lack of skills in the west. This has been solved to a large degree by massive immigration of IT workers into Canada and the US (in Europe many have come from Eastern Europe by the way (and they are actually good engineers, cultural very similar and easy to work with)) but not entirely, and the demand for IT has become so huge in the west that in fact offshoring hasnt made as big an impact on the jobs market as might have been expected. In fact sometimes it is beneficial as an expert is often needed at the end to come in and clean up the mess.
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