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honey the codewitch wrote: Is it that universities can't teach people to write clean software?
FTFY!
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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i was trying to be charitable. 
Real programmers use butterflies
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Part of the problem is that software "engineering" and computer science are rather different beasts. If the faculty is focused on computer science, it won't put much emphasis on software and may not even see it as a worthy pursuit. It's just a craft that must occasionally be dragged into various areas of computer science.
The problem is actually more widespread. My experience is that many companies with large software teams don't act as if software is important to their success. A software team is mostly seen as a cost center, and there is little drive for good design. A technical career path for people who prefer to focus on software doesn't exist or is weak. Among other things, a firm that runs a good software shop often has a software architect reporting directly to the VP of Engineering, and that person is compensated the same as the VP's other direct reports.
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My experience is worse: most of the current generation of students - or at least those I've seen - believe that "development" means "drag'n'drop from Smack Overdose"
And while I'm all for Modular Software, the modules do at least have to be in the same language ... 
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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does it count as modular when it's stuck together with bailing wire and a prayer?
Real programmers use butterflies
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No, you need duct tape and chewing gum as well.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Greg Utas wrote: Part of the problem is that software "engineering" and computer science are rather different beasts.
Thankfully this problem is slowly being addressed at some universities. Arizona State University, for example, differentiates between Computer Science and Software Engineering with separate degrees that diverge pretty heavily around sophomore year. The SE path has degree-specific courses covering topics like version control, continuous integration, project management, requirements elicitation, etc that the CS degree does not.
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I think it's hard to teach people how to write clean software. It's more a skill that is acquired gradually, both by seeing examples of good software and by writing software yourself, letting it "speak to you" as the saying goes, and being willing to refactor it even when it works. The largest piece of code I wrote in university was in assembler, something like 6,000 lines of code. In a high-level language, more like 3,000 lines. This doesn't quite prepare you for something that's far larger.
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The latest assembler i wrote i think wasn't even 1000, but then it has like 6 instructions and 1 macro so there's not much to it.
Real programmers use butterflies
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Don't think Michelangelo carved David the first time around.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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Gerry Schmitz wrote: Don't think Michelangelo carved David the first time around.
[tap]...
[*crick*]...
[*CRASH* *TINKLE* *BANG*]!
Ehi, Padre! E' sufficiente un braccio solo?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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You are correct: his first work in marble was the "Madonna of the Stairs" (~1491 CE).
Of course, as usual, your response came from the hole in your ozone layer where solar radiation scrambles your neurons 
«One day it will have to be officially admitted that what we have christened reality is an even greater illusion than the world of dreams.» Salvador Dali
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And as usual, you misunderstood the context. Perfect practice makes perfect.
Stick your hate where it doesn't shine.
(Oh, wishing you better luck next time).
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
modified 8-Feb-20 20:20pm.
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Yay! That's amazing, 65,000 major components, nearly 50 years, 40KB of memory, and it still runs.
Perhaps Bill Gates should have said that 40KB ought to be enough for anybody ... 
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
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1 BSOD in 40 years? Bill Gates should have hired the talent!
Monday starts Diarrhea awareness week, runs until Friday!
JaxCoder.com
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Hah! And that was a hardware fault - drawing too much power shut it down! 
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
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I just don't understand how you can do remote engineering on a unit that is offline.
It appears to me that it must have fixed itself (which is no less impressing!)
Or, was it not completely offline - could it receive software updates from earth, but not respond to them until now?
Whatever the explanation: It is impressing.
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Yeah they don't really tell you how it came back online, I'm assuming, like you that it fixed itself?
But you're right it is impressive.
Monday starts Diarrhea awareness week, runs until Friday!
JaxCoder.com
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How do you know member123whatever fixed himself? Maybe he did it with the support of family and friends.
Maybe he’s still broken
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somewhat like the early USB ports that came out on some MOBO's, plug in too much and things stopped working. (say USB powered speakers, business card scanners)
the units would still accept commands ("scan!" "OK"... whir-ur-ur.u...)
the mobo still works, hopefully the scanning app doesn't lock it up, or if it does kill the OS hopefully they set the "Auto Reboot" option.
some of voyagers bits that collect data (photo's, RF waves, catch particles) do the work on their own, analyse then periodically feed back the results.
some updates were sent so some would run a bit slower/less often (they were already programmed to restart one by one because they knew further away power would be limited - probably added longer delays for that too.) and of course each sends back "X started OK" messages so if it fails during restart they will know where (apparently a while back a couple of things have failed and were taken out of the startup list).
So the unit wasn't fully offline (or would restart if it was) but from what I read (a while ago)
- designed to restart if it detected failure,
- upon restart first check (in some cases actually wait) for new commands before anything else
- the radio that receives commands is itself autonomous and has a buffer in case the core is down
of course takes a long time to see if it worked: Amazon "you're parcel has been sent" - takes a day or two before it arrives before you can confirm as complete, working, arrived at all.Quote: NASA engineers are troubleshooting the problem, but it's slow going given Voyager 2's distance from Earth. With the probe 11.5 billion miles (18.5 billion kilometers) away, signals take 17 hours to travel one way and mission personnel must wait a total of 34 hours to see whether a command worked.
after many otherwise intelligent sounding suggestions that achieved nothing the nice folks at Technet said the only solution was to low level format my hard disk then reinstall my signature. Sadly, this still didn't fix the issue!
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Following along on that theme, you can be pretty sure - no, make that pretty damn sure- that it's not full of parts labeled "made in China".
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I just saw a notice regarding a recall on a certain very modern vehicle to update faulty software that was introduced in the first recall. We can initiate a software fix on a spacecraft on the edge of the solar system, but getting an update for the truck requires a trip to the garage. OTOH, I'm not sure I'd like my vehicle to receive an update/fix without my consent...still, I could see it being initiated from an email/website/app at least.
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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It's not the update that kills ya it's the reboot after!
Monday starts Diarrhea awareness week, runs until Friday!
JaxCoder.com
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