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I love it how people who don't buy Apple products always seem to know exactly why others do.
Must be amazing to be clairvoyant. 
There are two types of people in this world: those that pronounce GIF with a soft G, and those who do not deserve to speak words, ever.
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Mike Mullikin wrote: I love it how people who don't buy Apple products always seem to know exactly why others do.
Must be amazing to be clairvoyant.
It's not clairvoyance. I have engaged in conversations with Apple product owners, many of whom are close friends/family, and not once have I heard a reason convincing enough for me to think that they were making informed decisions.
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OK... 
...by that standard the conversations I've had with Android users would indicate that most of them are bottom-feeders who want a big smart phone to impress their second cousin and want the cheapest thing on the market despite the fact that it has a 3 year old OS riddled with security holes.
Fair?
There are two types of people in this world: those that pronounce GIF with a soft G, and those who do not deserve to speak words, ever.
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Not sure how you are interpreting me here. I am not saying Apple products are bad. I am not saying they are good either. What I am saying is that, based on my experience, a large number of people buy Apple products for reasons outside hardware quality and software stability.
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I'm interpreting you exactly as you state your intention. I just don't have the same experience and I actually doubt you're being honest with yourself.
My comment about Android users was 1) an attempt at humor and 2) based on similar stereotypical media BS that I believe shades your opinion on why people choose Apple products.
There are two types of people in this world: those that pronounce GIF with a soft G, and those who do not deserve to speak words, ever.
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Mike Mullikin wrote: I just don't have the same experience and I actually doubt you're being honest with yourself.
Well, then I think it's pointless for me to waste time trying to reply to you as to my rationale.
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Well Played! I was about to reply to one of his posts "But Nish is right".
Saved me the cost of a post.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Chris Maunder wrote: Their phone works well as a phone.
I know a few people who've had an iPhone that didn't work (even after returning it)
Chris Maunder wrote: Their music players shaped what we came to expect from a music player
I hope you don't mean iTunes. It's not only the worst music player in the world, it's easily one of the worst pieces of software in the world! I won't say Windows Media Player is much better (well, not anymore) though.
If you're referring to iPod, I have an iPod Classic and I've come accustomed to it. Before this, many, many, many years ago, I had a Creative. Back then that was just so much better! Too bad they didn't come in 160GB (and neither does iPod anymore).
Chris Maunder wrote: [...] ecosystem [...] the cache that comes with Apple products
You mean vendor lock-in.
Really Apple is no better than other tech companies.
You should know it's just software and software has bugs. They have bugs just like Microsoft, Linux, Google, Facebook, and what have you.
True, their design is different from Microsoft (and others) and some like it (although personally I like the MS Phone better).
Apple's different, but not necessarily better.
It -is- a lot more expensive though.
Many people buy Apple for status.
I could now point you to many websites that show that people liked Android much better when they were told that it was the new iPhone. They even liked the "new" features!
Or studies that show Apple fanboys are much less critical towards Apple than MS fanboys are towards MS.
One study even showed that the part of the brain that's active when people practice their religion is also used when Apple fanboys talk about Apple.
But one can question the validity of such studies.
I'm pretty sure there's at least a bit of truth in them though.
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Chris Maunder wrote: I think people go for Apple because they like the design, the ecosystem, the simplicity (we can argue about this later) and the cache that comes with Apple products.
I think people go for Starbucks because of laziness, ignorance, convenience, or because there's no other choice.
I'd make the argument that people flock to Apple for those exact same reasons: Their products are sold on the premise that they "just work", and nobody wants to give themselves the trouble to learn to use the products offered by their competitors (or they just gave up on them). How is that not laziness, ignorance and convenience...
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super wrote: Overpriced and driven by fanboysgirls
FTFY (in the case of Starbucks)
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde
Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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ive been to starbucks twice - both times the floor and tables were 'sticky' & the coffee overpriced, there would have to be a good reason for me to try them a third time
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Chris Maunder wrote: Discuss.
You should have stayed in Australia.
Michael Martin
Australia
"I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible."
- Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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Please send CARE package STOP Morale plummeting STOP Can't last much longer STOP
cheers
Chris Maunder
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So...that's Castlemaine, Bundy, Vegemite, and a box of killer spiders? 
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Chris Maunder wrote: Starbucks coffee is an affront to all things good about coffee
FTFY!
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Last one closed in 2003 here...
As today - after a hit of the 5 NIS coffee campaign - you can buy a very good coffee (according those drink that stuff) for about $1.3...How much Starbucks cost?
Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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Cost of coffee varies, depending upon location (rent surely rolled in - cost of living, maybe). From what I've observed, the real cost of coffee, not 'a cup', but comparing true volume:volume is pretty much the same at Starbucks as elsewhere. That not taking into account that the amount of coffee per unit volume is so much higher at Starbucks than the 'bargain' coffee (Dunkin Donuts, McDonalds, etc.).
Compared to a local coffee shop in my 'town', at Starbucks, the cost is slightly lower, the beverage volume larger, and the service better (this last one can be untrue during local special events and beautiful summer beach weekends).
Israel is heavily laden with coffee-production locations that produce real coffee - it would be hard, indeed, to compete. Everyplace seems to produce coffee on a per-cup basis. I was even looking for some on an Egged bus.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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What exactly do you not like about them? I like their coffee, but not the foo-foo drinks.
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In all seriousness, and with respect to the company as a whole (their branding, their social efforts, their consistency etc etc) I find the coffee weak and bitter.
North America seems to have a fascination with coffee bean cremation. Even local cafes in Toronto often start out smooth, full bodied, and with an excellent aftertaste, and then soon enough the roast turns darker and more bitter until you're back to the norm: a coffee that has the subtlety burned out of it.
The other issue is that they never seem to be able to get a decent microfosm going. Get it right and it makes the coffee smoother and sweeter. Instead they scorch the milk and break down the goodness. It really makes a huge difference.
(Caveat here is I'm talking about espresso based drinks, not the coffee-through-a-wet-rag filter coffee. )
cheers
Chris Maunder
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I see.
My sophistication in such matters, is lacking. 
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Slacker007 wrote: My sophistication in such matters, is lacking
Welcome to the club. I find the whole discussion rather amusing. Coffee is a brown non-carbonated drink with a small amount of sweetener and milk added, required for my brain to start up in the morning.
I've had coffee that tasted like each bean was quietly coaxed into releasing its flavor by the gentle hands of a virgin living on a mountaintop.
I've also had coffee that tasted like it had been used as motor oil in a 1947 Buick.
In both cases my powers of discrimination are at a minimum when I'm drinking it, so the subtleties are lost.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Well said, on so many levels. 
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Wrong on every imaginable count.
Coffee:
Most stores, at least in the US, are company stores. For that reason they discard and replace unsold coffee on schedule, not when it's all sold or too nasty. Usually, however, it's sold out first.Dark roasted - although those admittedly nasty light roasts were made available for those who used that as an excuse not to buy coffee thereThey use more coffee to make their coffee - never watery - and, much as some like the element of surprise, no mystery about the quality=reliably highI haven't bought a fancy mixed coffee beverage in years (that wasn't alcoholic) there or anyplace else.Environment:
Each Starbucks is different - usually with real furniture - the one nearest me has a fireplace.and their business model is to encourage people to linger over their coffee - making it easy to study, use laptops, etc., with free WiFi and electrical connectionsTheir planned niche is to make their place one of your comfort places - and there's nothing wrong with thatSocial Consciousness:
Part Time employees, a great many of them, earn vacation time, sick time, medical benefits, college tuition, etc., which is rare, indeed, in the US for a chain (especially q.v., Walmart, McDonalds, etc.)They were trend-setter in their coffee sourcing, getting the money directly into the hands of the growers when possible - and now it seems everyone's doing itEven their 'card' program - I don't have one, but apparently the changes reflect customer requests. A customer is now 'fully credited' for buying multiple items in a transaction, rather than 'per visit'. This would not be to my advantage, but it's clearly fairer.Now, they don't sh^t as sweetly as the whip-cream that tops many a beverage, and have made mistakes, but when it comes down to it, they're a reasonably socially responsible company. And they, at least in the US, are the ones who really popularized the concept of drinking real coffee instead of the traditional swill that used to pass for coffee.
Uh-Oh! There goes my CP account!
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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The discussion is about he coffee, not the social responsibility or consistency. Consistently bad and catering to the lowest common denominator are awful things we need to avoid. Life is more exciting with a little inconsistency!
Besides, at 5am in the morning I'd probably buy from someone using baby seals as seat cushions if the coffee was good enough.
Sure, I'd feel terrible later on, but the coffee would get me through those bad moments.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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