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MoMA (The Museum of Modern Art) in New York City has decided that video games are art, and they are opening an exhibit this spring dedicated to this newly declared art. So far they have acquired 14 games for the exhibit. What say you CP? Clickety[^]
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde
Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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I agree that it's art. Some of the scenery and the characters are truly amazing. To be able to conceptualize it and draw/paint it, I definitely couldn't do.
On the other hand my son is going to Full Sail in Orlando, FL and getting a degree in Game Art. He has a eye for that type of stuff. He definitely didn't get that talent from me.
If you can’t have fun at work, then why go to work?
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A couple of my friends went to Full Sail for film production. They were both into the lighting and special effects stuff. I think one of them is still there, and the other is in Los Angeles now. I know he's worked on a couple music videos and maybe a movie or two. Not bad for a 21 year old kid that's only been there for 5 months.
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde
Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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My son's doing some concept art on a game that a friend of his and a group of guys are trying to put together and market. The friend graduated in November and has a job up in Chicago I think. I told my son if he got his name on a published game, he couldn't buy that type of advertising or credentials to put on his resume.
He trust the friend but he's not sure about the other guys, so he's made sure to sign all his artwork and keep the originals so there's no question that he did the work. The friend said they couldn't pay him for his work but if the game got to market they'd pay him royalties. I told him the credentials to his name would probably be worth more than the royalties. But he'll take the royalties too.
I know they do some really exciting things. Sometimes the NFL draft is done from one of their studios. Some of the ESPN sport cast are too. They had a quarterback come in and get filmed to improve his throwing. Some of the students get to work on real recordings that go to cd.
I was told that it was some Full Sail students who created the video scenes for Sunday night football opening sequence. Several of the graduates from there worked on the Thor movie and another one that had a lot of special effects.
It's the place to be if you want to go into media arts. The connection to the industries are huge there.
If you can’t have fun at work, then why go to work?
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Could I suggest that we consider the technical aspects as art as well? A game like tetris is not great in visual stuff, but it's an art to take something that simple and make it as successful as tetris is (dunno how financially successful it is though). The 'user satisfaction' levels of tetris / pacman / etc is also so unexpected I would like to suggest that it is an art.
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Be brave little warrior, be VERY brave
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I like the game, but I feel like Portal doesn't really fit.
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How so? I think it is an excellent example of great storytelling in a video game and is an amazingly original idea.
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde
Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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It is an original idea in the mechanics of the portal, but under the surface it is a level based puzzle solving game; not that original. The story is pretty decent, but not awe inspiring.
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wizardzz wrote: a level based puzzle solving game; not that original. The story is pretty decent, but not awe inspiring.
How many other level-based puzzle solving games won loads of Game of the Year awards...?
Also, what video game does have an awe inspiring story? 
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde
Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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Accolades don't make it art. My Cousin Vinny won an Oscar (best supporting actress). My Cousin Vinny is not art. Crash and Chicago won best motion pictures. Not art.
Anyways, I think the just picked "cool" games. I was not blown away or even really absorbed in the story line of Portal to be honest. It was short, cool, fun, but not art.
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wizardzz wrote: My Cousin Vinny is not art.
GET OUT!  wizardzz wrote: I think they just picked "cool" games.
What games would you select to be part of the exhibit?
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde
Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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Probably the games in which the songs, images, and stories effected my dreams. The Legend of Zelda for NES is an example of that. Probably some of the better Final Fantasies. Possibly the original Mortal Kombat. (I took the time to learn how to draw, just to draw the characters for MKI and MKII). Since it's an exhibit on Contemporary Art, perhaps the influence on pop culture could be weighted, then Portal would definitely be included. I will give it that, "The cake is a lie." is one of the best single video game lines.
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I think they plan on getting The Legend of Zelda, and I would assume that at least one Final Fantasy will make an appearance eventually. I also noticed the lack of fighting games, but in the list of games they want, they have Street Fighter II which is arguably the greatest fighting game there is.
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill
America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde
Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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As the germans say: "Kunst liegt im Auge des Betrachters" means, art lies in the eye of the spectator.
There are many many forms of art. I personally think every code we write is a form of art. It all depends of your point of view.
What for you is art for others may just be a waste of time and otherwise.
I personally would not say that this LINK[^] is art...looks like somebody vomited on it.
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!!
Dogs are man's best Friend,
Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
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Art is not a subjective thing, it is absolute and universal. In fact universality is part of what defines art. That art is in the eye of the beholder is a common and tiresome misconception, aesthetics or more generally beauty is in the eye of the beholder, art is not.
When you see a sufficiently complex mathematical algorithm, one that escapes your comprehension, you don't say that it is not mathematics, you just accept that you don't have a thorough enough understanding to appreciate its function. Strange how people can't accept their lack of understanding when it comes to painting ,sculpture, music etc. While its true that some art is vastly overrated due to cultural and other influences, any piece of art's merit can be determined in an almost finite manner. There is also the issue of taste, art does exist that I do not 'like' but I still recognise its artistic merit.
Anyway, computer games can definitely be considered art but that definition goes way beyond simple (and often hackneyed) aesthetics. Tetris is definitely a work of art, quake also, just as examples. But derivatives that add nothing to the form are as 'none art' when it comes to games as they are in any other discipline.
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Art is not a subjective thing
I think your wrong there, i don't mean to troll but in my opinion art is mostly subjective. For me art has something to do with talent. I agree that art has many many forms but also there are many many things called art that are just rubbish and are only hanging in museums because somebody had connections to somebody who has influence.
I bet you that if i took a picture of my breakfast every morning, frame it and say to (hypothetically speaking) a friend of mine, who has connection in the art world, that this is how my inner feelings are manifested he would talk to his connections and he would sell it, that doesn't make me an artist. so yes Art is very very subjective and defined by society much more as we think.
By your definition every picture in instagram could be defined by art even if not every person using who uses instagram isn't a professional or artist. It very hard to define art i know but there has to be a line between what is art and what is not, that line has to be drawn by ourselves and our point of view
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!!
Dogs are man's best Friend,
Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
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Hi Mendor81,
Could nor agree more, and not...
Yes, there is a lot of crap in galleries that is not art and is there simply because of the 'artist's' connections. Unfortunately art has become a commodity and therefore there is a need for a constant supply of new product. This leads to people, who should really know better, giving merit to content that clearly has none.
By my definition no picture on instagram could automatically be considered art, I have yet to see a work of art on instagram. Photographs are not inherently art. In order for an object to be considered art it would have to meet a set of absolute criteria. This is what I mean by not being subjective, it is not art just because you like it, or think it is pretty or whatever. It is art because it succeeds in a predefined set of objectives which we use to define what is art and what is not art. These objectives can vary from one discipline to another, some are universal, but whatever they are they must be met for a work to be considered art and not simply decoration or information or something other.
Talent is no prerequisite either, though it can help, intelligence, knowledge and skill are far more important.
If you simply draw the line between art and not art yourself by some arbitrary measure then the terms become meaningless. You would just be expressing an abstract opinion relating to your personal likes and dislikes, so why even call it art.
Taste is subjective, art is not.
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Although I tend to agree with your "accolades don't make it art" assessment, please keep in mind that your junk may be someone else's "art". I have seen stuff that would make me vomit if it were in my living room, but serious people in the art world have declared it's value. In fact, there are displays of urinals that would qualify in the art world, but not by my definition.
From wikipedia: Fountain is a 1917 work widely attributed to Marcel Duchamp. The scandalous work was a porcelain urinal, which was signed "R.Mutt" and titled Fountain. Submitted for the exhibition of the Society of Independent Artists in 1917, Fountain was rejected by the committee, even though the rules stated that all works would be accepted from artists who paid the fee. Fountain was displayed and photographed at Alfred Stieglitz’s studio, and the photo published in The Blind Man, but the original has been lost. The work is regarded by some art historians and theorists of the avant-garde, such as Peter Bürger, as a major landmark in 20th century art. Replicas commissioned by Duchamp in the 1960s are now on display in a number of different museums.
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Interesting. You are citing a piece of art that had the sole purpose of not being art!
It was a middle finger to the established art community and world at large of the early 20th century. It was one of the first pieces of the Dada movement- an anti art response to the world at the time (Think WWI). I guess the question with Fountain is whether or not you classify anti art, as art. Regardless, if you don't see it as art, then it successfully served its exact purpose.
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And I did so on purpose. There are many such examples, and not all were designed to display a middle finger. My point was to simply state that art for some is junk for others, and we each end up being a critic for our own tastes. However, to exclude something as being non artistic is to thumb our noses on all those whose opinion differs from our own.
I think discussing games (or programming languages or any other subjective comparison) and stating that something isn't "art" because it doesn't bring something new to the table is like saying that all paintings of a bowl of fruit aren't art because it has been done before. It's an opinion, but not necessarily an accurate one.
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DougWills wrote: My point was to simply state that art for some is junk for others, and we each end up being a critic for our own tastes. However, to exclude something as being non artistic is to thumb our noses on all those whose opinion differs from our own.
I discussed this point earlier on other branches of this thread. I was expressing my opinion. My initial opinion was that it should not be included on that list.
DougWills wrote: I think discussing games (or programming languages or any other subjective comparison) and stating that something isn't "art" because it doesn't bring something new to the table
I was not using that as a standard to qualify something as art. As mentioned earlier, to me, art should inspire awe; "The definition of art is subjective, obviously. But to me art is supposed to invoke a strong reaction; awe, disgust, self examination, etc." -me. Others brought originality into the mix.
DougWills wrote: is like saying that all paintings of a bowl of fruit aren't art because it has been done before.
I would say many, possibly most paintings of a bowl of fruit are not art, but not for lack of originality's sake. Many paintings are not art and many painters are not artists. The medium does not make it art, the message does.
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wizardzz wrote: under the surface it is a level based puzzle solving game
Under the surface of the Mona Lisa and Michelangelo's David is just paint and stone (or whatever it's made of). 
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Hmmm, not the best analogy. If you said Mona Lisa was a portrait of an ugly woman, and David a sculpture of a badly endowed man, you'd be accurate.
Your analogy is better suited if I were to have called Portal, a bunch of 1's and 0's under the surface. 
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I was considering using "painting and sculpture" instead, but I didn't like the sentence construction. Aesthetics are very important, you see.
wizardzz wrote: Mona Lisa was a portrait of an ugly woman
Or an attractive man.
wizardzz wrote: David a sculpture of a badly endowed man
Or a well endowed woman.
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Thank you, thank you for the nightmares I will be having tonight.
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