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OriginalGriff wrote: So rather than help developers to produce good apps quickly (remember MS thinks developers are a "necessary evil" at best, and "pond scum" at worst) they decided not to moderate the store at all.
But, but, but... it wasn't too long ago Apple was EVIL because they moderated their app store. My how things have changed. 
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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I never said that! 
Mind you, I don't use Apple products... 
You looking for sympathy?
You'll find it in the dictionary, between sympathomimetic and sympatric
(Page 1788, if it helps)
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I've said this before but Microsoft's tablet venture would have been much more successful without a 'Store'...they should have done what they always have in the past and given developers as much freedom as possible...by trying to imitate Apple and Google, they doomed themselves.
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DaveX86 wrote: they should have done what they always have in the past and given developers as much freedom as possible.
Bow does a store stop this? (or do you meant the process involved in submitting apps to a store?)
Whether or not it's a store, there absolutely needs to be a central registry of apps that allow you to sort out the wheat from the chaff.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Why does there have to be a central registry?...I can build an EXE file now and give it to whoever I want?...just do the App equivalent?...why can't you have the usual anti-virus / anti-malware that looks at EXE's look at Apps?
You can manually install an *.APK file in Android without the Store...
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DaveX86 wrote: Why does there have to be a central registry
For security and safety.
OK, so it's not a "must have" for a user. For a platform, though, it is. People need to trust it. Users just want to see lots of apps that look useful and try them all instead of seeing lots of apps and thinking "will it steal my credit info?", "is it just a scam app?".
It's not a technical issue, it's a social issue.
(and yes, Android can install anything. This is why 97% of all new exploits target Android[^])
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Well it's a departure from 'The Microsoft Way' that made them so successful...they adopted 'The Apple Way' and it didn't work out for them. The thing that made Microsoft so popular was technically proficient people like us who figured things out and helped everyone out with it...that's gone, now they want a centralized support model like Apple...all Apple people call Apple Support...I've never called Microsoft support in my life and I started with DOS.
Android is targeted the most by hackers because they are the clear market winner: http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp[^]
...hackers always target the most successful platform where they can get the most bang for their efforts...used to be Windows...
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I would argue that hackers target the platform that provides them the best return on their development investment.
If a single iOS intrusion resulted in 10X "revenue" to a given Android intrusion (to make up numbers) then there'd be 10X effort put into Apple. If it's 1000 times harder (again, to pick a number) then the 10X effort won't be enough and so effort would be redirected back to Android.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Your argument makes sense if the hacking community only goes after Americans, as that's where the biggest Apple saturation is.
I can't pretend to know how the economics of hacking work or even how one applies for a job in it...if I only had time and energy to be a master of one platform, I would go for the most popular one.
Make sure to keep your Bluetooth turned off...hackers always 'Blue-jack' your phone...see it on Person of Interest all the time 
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I personally prefer a tin-foil hat.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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DaveX86 wrote: all Apple people call Apple Support
Where did that come from?
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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Do you know an Apple person who's never called Support?
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DaveX86 wrote: Do you know an Apple person who's never called Support?
Myself, my wife, my daughter...
I have (a VERY long time ago) called Microsoft support though. Turns out it was a virus. 
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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All right, you win...it was an unfair generalization
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Have you seen the news? Microsoft is saying you should uninstall the security update for MS14-045
From the article below:
"Installation went smoothly. After rebooting everything worked fine. But when I shut down my notebook and switched it on a little later it came up with a blue screen with a Stop 0x50 in Win32k.sys. I could not even boot into safe mode as Windows failed to start no matter which mode chose," wrote a user identified as "xformer" to start a now-long thread on Microsoft's support discussion forum.
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9250446/Microsoft_urges_customers_to_uninstall_Blue_Screen_of_Death_update[^]
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This is a relief, my PC at home was bluescreening all weekend and I thought it was a hardware problem, I'm hoping it was this!
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Sorry you were having the problem, but hope this resolves it for you.
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So if you check the link that gives more information about the bad update (https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/security/ms14-045.aspx[^] ) then you will see that the KB number is:
2984615
That is the number that is displayed in your View Update History so why M$ refers to it as this other number I have no idea. Well, it's because they like to create confusion, of course.
Also, when you try to determine if that KB is installed on your computer, you will have a hard time, because you can't easily -- or maybe at all -- sort by those values.
Way to go, Microsoft.
Here's the quick path to how to get to a place which displays installed updates:
Control Panel\System and Security\Windows Update\View update history
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fwiw - I used Nirsoft Sysexporter, pointed it to the listbox that shows the updates, dumped all the info to a text file, then simply did a search for 2984615
.. may help someone else speed up the process
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Why not just use the Search box in Explorer?
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d'oh that would imply that I remembered/realised that the patches were 'files' named with the relevant ID in the filename
thanks for that 
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Upgrade to Windows 8.1 and your problem is solved. 
Unless, of course, you are one of those who insists on running an old version of the operating system and then complaining when something goes wrong. 
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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Bumpersticker, "My other OS is UBUNTU!"
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Then why do you even run Windows if you like UBUNTU so much?
Oh wait, it doesn't support some of the things for which you need a computer. 
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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Just Microsoft-based dev. That is all. Everything else I want in a computer is on Ubuntu.
When M$ OS finally fails and the company goes out of business then I won't have to worry about it at all.
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