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No, is as long as have crazy people with gun
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A few years back a referee in the Netherlands was kicked to death by a couple of teens because of the same reason 
It's really sad that lives are destroyed over stupid games by f****** psychopaths.
Could you imagine shooting a coworker because he wrote some bad code?
Well, maybe you could... Forget I asked 
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Futbol player, not soccer. This is why we renamed the sport, because y'all got crazy psycho players. That and because you flop. 
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Saw that earlier today, good aim! but at the expense of a perfectly good ![Beer | [beer]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/beer.gif) , now that's alcohol abuse.
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment
"Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
"I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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My company outsourced one project to a consulting company. Now that project is almost over we are asking for a source code + database. It is a .NET based solution with SQL Server and repository is TFS. Their estimate to deliver this will take 2 days and cost approx $3000. I am angry because that is a blunt lie that proving source code will take 2 days. I have always used subversion and not sure about TFS but my guess is it will not take that many days to give us a source code and backup of database. I need to provide feedback to my manager.
Anyone with TFS experience want to give me your feedback if TFS is the complexity or it is just them trying to fleece more money ?
Edit:
After one phone call that estimate dropped to 6-8 hours.
Few more emails and phone calls and cost dropped to $0.
Zen and the art of software maintenance : rm -rf *
Maths is like love : a simple idea but it can get complicated.
modified 18-Feb-16 23:22pm.
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It'll not take more than 1-2 hours to migrate from on-premise TFS to Microsoft-hosted TFS (VSTS, formerly VSO).
See Migrate team projects from on-premises TFS to Visual Studio Team Services[^]
Even if your DB is 300 - 400 GB in size, a backup shouldn't take more than 45 minutes. And then an overnight FedEx/UPS on a USB drive.
One guy could do all of this, TFS migration, DB backup, short drive to the nearest FedEx location in about 6-8 hours. Assuming 150/hr that'd be about $1200 max.
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This is what I am asking for
1. Check out source code from their repository ( Team Foundation Server ) and zip the folder and send that to us.
2. Create a database backup and send that or generate a script to create database tables and send that. Database size is hardly 2GB.
Zen and the art of software maintenance : rm -rf *
Maths is like love : a simple idea but it can get complicated.
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Ok, that's about 1-2 hours of work I'd think 
Maybe they have a strict agile environment, so there's probably two stand-up meetings involved here, an iteration manager, a second scrum master, an analyst, an in-room analyst, a tester, a data expert, an architect, and then the guy who actually does all this. That'd explain the $3,000.
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Nish Nishant wrote: Maybe they have a strict agile environment, so there's probably two stand-up meetings involved here, an iteration manager, a second scrum master, an analyst, an in-room analyst, a tester, a data expert, an architect, and then the guy who actually does all this
 hic!
Thank you Nish, I needed a good laugh this morning.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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I think it's a mistake for you to quote time and money here. There's no way you can tell him that without knowing a lot more about the app and all that's involved in it. See my response to him below.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
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If you are paid to do a work, you do not own it. You paid for doing the work, the results are yours.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Agreed. Being a full time consultant/contractor I ALWAYS write into the contract that THEY own the code upon paying me. This includes releasing me from reliability.
However, from his question it doesn't sound like any of this is an issue.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
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What does "own the code" mean? Can they sell the application to others?
Peter Wasser
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
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If you're an independent and are hire to write an app for someone/some company, and you're NOT an employee of the company, then it's called a Work For Hire. Since you own the original work, like a book author or a painting's artist, you own it.
Unless you specifically tell them otherwise, YOU own the code and they cannot sell it, modifiy it, or give it away.
Now they can certainly try to sue you, so it's better to create a contract - to spell out exactly who owns what and for how long. I ALWAYS relinquish ownership for non-proprietary portions of the app once they pay me.
All of this is spelled out in state law, so read up on it.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
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Yes indeed. The legal details vary from country to country. Getting clients (and their lawyers) to understand this is not always easy. This is also where escrow sometimes comes in. I tended to follow a similar practice to yours. As an independent developer keeping clients happy is always a priority.
Peter Wasser
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
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Kevin Marois wrote: This includes releasing me from reliability.
I do think you meant "from liability" (?)
«In art as in science there is no delight without the detail ... Let me repeat that unless these are thoroughly understood and remembered, all “general ideas” (so easily acquired, so profitably resold) must necessarily remain but worn passports allowing their bearers short cuts from one area of ignorance to another.» Vladimir Nabokov, commentary on translation of “Eugene Onegin.”
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Are you sure?
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the time
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I consult to other companies for a living so I have an idea what's involved.
The answer is - it depends.
If it's a large app with a lot of extraneous parts scattered across different repositories, then it could be a fair amount of work. They probably want to also ensure that their not giving away any proprietary code(I wrote various pieces of code that I give them permission to use in a compiled form, but not the source). The rest is code I write specifically for them so they get the source.
Then they probably will also go through the code thoroughly before giving it up to make sure it's 'clean'.
Add to that their probably charging an hourly rate to have one or more developers/DB Admins do this.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
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Kevin Marois wrote: their not giving
they're
Kevin Marois wrote: that their probably
they're
Decrease the belief in God, and you increase the numbers of those who wish to play at being God by being “society’s supervisors,” who deny the existence of divine standards, but are very serious about imposing their own standards on society.-Neal A. Maxwell
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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virang_21 wrote: Now that project is almost over we are asking for a source code + database
First off, bad on you for not asking up front, before anything is even written, for the keys to the repo. Haven't you guys been reviewing change logs to see if the billing seems reasonable for the work? Haven't you been verifying that you can build the code as the project develops? Haven't there been code reviews of the work?
virang_21 wrote: Their estimate to deliver this will take 2 days and cost approx $3000.
Sounds to me like they haven't been using source control. Or if they have, the project is in shambles. But the price seems high, but not necessarily the timeframe. What are you paying these guys as an hourly rate?
virang_21 wrote: and not sure about TFS
Having used TFS, it could very well take 2 days to get everything sync'd up, not to mention get it downloaded on your end! 
Marc
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Chances are it has more to do with red tape and bureaucracy than anything to do with the tech side.
Jeremy Falcon
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Not much you can do about this now; the souroutsorceller [1] has you by the bollocks.
But, you can make sure you, or your company, never sign a contract that permits things like this to happen.
The principle recommended is: no milestone reached, no deliverable received and signed-off on = no payment, with final payment at least four times the amount of any milestone payment.
cheers, Bill
[1] yes, a portmanteau invented just for this post combining: "out" ... the OP is out money; "sour" ... this is not a "happy ending;" and a form of "ensorcell" (the archaic English verb with the sense of "casting a spell," or "bewitching") to indicate the possibility of bewitching seduction by the happy "outsiders" that allowed them achieve situational control and demand more money.
«In art as in science there is no delight without the detail ... Let me repeat that unless these are thoroughly understood and remembered, all “general ideas” (so easily acquired, so profitably resold) must necessarily remain but worn passports allowing their bearers short cuts from one area of ignorance to another.» Vladimir Nabokov, commentary on translation of “Eugene Onegin.”
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I would think you are lucky to get away with a 3k bill. I know organisations that have been presented with a bill an order of magnitude bigger for the source of a project they did not nail down in a contract BEFORE starting.
I also seem to recall a thread here where the consultant was inquiring as to who should pay for the lawyer to write/vet the contract. The consensus was the company should pay that bill, ie YOU so 3k for that error is probably minimal.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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Actually I would have said at least a week.
Not that the actual export would take that long, but rather to have a run through the code for "ugly" comments or indentations (in short: making it look "more professional") and also to make sure all is OK with the export (it compiles, it runs). Then I would make a clear and nice package and some release notes on how to setup the dev environment and to install and populate the database.
When I'm writing this, a week is even fast. Note that I assume they were not aware they should give the code up front.
In addition a consultancy firm (in Belgium) asks for anywhere between 450€ and 1500€ per man-day so if they put a few people on this 3000$ is not that much. I would even start to question if they are delivering quality product for that price.
With consultancy firms you're always in a fight and you're never sure what their actual work is. (unless they come work internal of course)
(But that's of course my opinion)
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