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Self taught - have Chemistry and Math degrees, but learned PDP-11 assembler to write elemental analysis routines for and Inductively Coupled Argon Plasma Spectraphotometer in the lab where I worked. Then went on to x86 assembly, Delphi, C, C++, VB 6.0, Powerbuilder, MUMPS, Forth and C#. I got no stinkin' CS degree on my wall!
Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - Lazarus Long
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I used to give week long, crash courses for computer languages to corporate programmers that needed to learn a new language.
Some highlights and lowlights:
- Highlight: Introducing C++ to a bunch of C programmers with an average of 10 years of C!
Unfortunately, the training company had selected some course from MS for transitioning COBOL programmers to C++. We covered that whole week of material in a few hours then made up our own class. They brought some samples of their nastiest (most efficient) C code that did things that C++ does not allow due to scope violations. I learned a thing or two. They had keggers every Friday, but I had to pass on the beer since I had a 3 hour drive home. - Lowlight: Not realizing until Thursday that a bunch of IBM mainframe assembly programmers that were learning C did NOT understand how the stack works! I was flabbergasted; they were really confused about the concept of local variables. I came to understand that their programs all worked on global variables. They would: load up a bunch of registers and then call a library, unload a register or two, load up some more registers and then call a library, etc.
- Lowlight: Realizing that one of my students had no concept of breaking units of work down into functions/subroutines. Their background was in an environment that I knew. I knew it supported functions (VBScript/VBA type language). Their programs only had a single main() function!
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Very similar story. I had one formal course in Fortran some 50+ years ago. Then did some Basic programing throughout my career. Upon retiring I started with VB6 and then, about 5 years ago C#. I'm trained as a scientist, not engineer: we experiment and our not very good designers. Makes for being bad programmers  I really do feel the gaps I have in knowledge and have found OOP particularly difficult to comprehend. A whole new way of thinking for an old guy
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I am self taught in Basic as a kid on a Commodore 64 and later a Trash 80. After high school I went and got a BS in Electrical Engineering and that came with some actual classroom training in Basic, Fortran, and assembly language but the focus was not computer science. Around that time I built an Apple II clone and Pascal was the hot ticket so I took a night course in that as well as COBOL (who knows why?). I was also employed working on diagnostic software for high volume printers in Forth and C. I decided I wanted an MSCS degree so I went at night. Learning the theory was worth it for me. Thirty years later I'm still working on embedded software but these days it's mostly C++, assembly and Python. I fool around at home with some robotics and when I retire next year I plan to do even more with that.
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I can definitely relate to that...
I bought a Commodore Vic20 when I was 12,and the cost at that time was $300 USD. Got me the VIC modem and was online at 300 baud.
When I went to a Catholic high school, they had a few Apple II computers; and going into my sophomore year someone had donated about 30 of the new Commodore 64s. I got to take a course in BASIC. Mid way through the year, we received a grant from IBM, 60 PCs and a few XTs. WooHoo! I was now in the "Special Projects in Computer Programming" elite course.
After HS, I was in the Marine Corps, Information Systems Development; working with DB2. I left after 6 years including Desert Shield/Storm.
Got me a "fast food" diploma in Applied Science from DeVry in the mid 90s, where I first learned OOP with Turbo Pascal.
Late 90's I got an MCSE+i and a CNA, we touched on VBScript and Classic ASP.
Built a website for the volunteer fire department using Classic ASP and FrontPage in 2002.
Got a job as a programmer for a local web developer where my Classic ASP was fine tuned. Boss wasn't hip on .Net Framework until 2010. Had a so-called developer build a new Content Management System in C# following MVC. That programmer was scared of SQL Server, and wrote everything using LinqToSql; as he was learning from some "learn C# in 30 days" type of book. This was a code-first architecture, and the resulting Sql architecture was very ugly. It also was generating about 50x the queries when compared to the well written Classic ASP it was replacing.
I wasn't to keen on all of these methods of building new projects, seemed to be too much drag-n-drop programming for people who couldn't program or work with SQL.
After this is when I got to learn C#, by fixing what was broke. Took about 3 years to get rid of all the errors and to get it to be somewhat efficient; as the boss was more interested in moving ahead and not fixing the busted foundation. Those 3 years saw this CMS replicated about 500 times.
I was tasked with building a new CMS in 2014, and had full engineering control. At this time I actually started doing the research needed on the best ways of implementing what needed to be done; and the new platform was created. In 2016 I left the company as they were no longer invested into the programming aspect, just having a template and seeking alternative revenue streams based on the marketing of the clients.
So for the last 6 months, I have really gotten into learning the actual foundation of C#; when to use structure vs class, immutability, etc. The "Compact" management system I have built is about 10X more efficient than the one I finished a year ago. And I will be the first to say that I still have a lot to learn
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My introduction to programming was a year of FORTRAN in high school, 1973-1974. Taught at the local community collage, but for high school students. Coding forms and punch cards. Got to see the computer once, on the first day of class.
Liked it, but didn't do it again until Fall 1978. One semester of FORTRAN was required in the undergrad program in the College of Architecture and Urban Planning. Teletype terminals connected over 300-baud serial lines to the mainframe computer in the Computing Center. Relearned what I'd learned in two semesters of high school, and more. For the final project, I wrote my first computer graphic program: drawing shear, bending moment, and deflection diagrams for a simply-supported beam with a uniform load and up to 10 point loads. Output to a pen plotter in the Computing Center. There was a well-worn trail in the snow between the Art & Architecture Building and the Computing Center.
Followed that in Winter 1980 with an elective course in computer graphics, in the Master of Architecture program, still in FORTRAN. Working on Tektronix storage-tube graphics terminals. Couldn't erase a line without erasing the whole screen and redrawing all of the lines except the one to be erased.
Also, for a sesmster project in an advanced lighting design course, I wrote a program to intercept a temporary data file from a FORTRAN batch lighting analysis program (LUMEN II) to draw perspective views of room surfaces with shaded luminance contours. (LUMEN II itself "drew" surface contours with ASCII art on the line printer.) I used a lot of dense cross-hatching on the pen plotter (which invoked the ire of some), and on the storage tube terminals. Then we got a Chromatics color raster terminal. Wow -- 4 bits per pixel: red, green, blue, and blink! So I changed my program to support that.
This continued through two additional semesters as an independent study project. And that's where the REAL learning happens ...
In the spring of 1980, with one year of architecture school remaining, I took a job in the Architecture and Planning Research Laboratory, working on software for a Computer Aided Engineering and Architectural Design System (CAEADS), for a project sponsored by the Corps of Engineers.
In the spring of 1981, I graduated from the professional program in architecture as a professional computer programmer. I've been doing it ever since.
Self-taught in C (and combining C and FORTRAN libraries, with function-calling in both directions), C++, a bit of JavaScript, occasional forays into C#. As a doctoral student in architecture I took a two-semester cognate sequence in artificial intelligence taught in the CS department: a lot of LISP in the first semester, and not a single line of code in the second.
I'm now a "virtual reality visualization specialist" (according to my name card), working almost exclusively in C++. Moved from the shared-time mainframe system, to Apollo Aegis workstations, to various UNIX & X11 Windows environments (Ardent, AIX, XENIX, HP-UX, IRIX), and now working with Microsoft Windows 7, 8.1, and 10.
At home I have a MacbookPro that, as an OpenBSD host with an X11 Window server, still runs 36-year-old FORTRAN code, ported from the mainframe to UNIX systems decades ago.
Most of what I know, I learned by doing -- either on the job or at home.
A hollow voice says "plugh".
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Think about it: if the world was flat, cats would have pushed everything off it by now.
(Thanks Rich!)
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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And how do you know that the world is not flat and the cat's simply don't like to touch some things?
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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There speaks a non-cat-owner! 
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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And who do you think taught me all about chaos and anarchy?
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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Cats are not anarchists: they like a rigid dictatorship, with - of course - themselves at the pinnacle, and all others ground under their furry iron paw.
Think Pol Pot with no opposable thumbs.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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No. They are just playing their roles as spoiled little babies, which has gotten them into our houses. Besides that, they know no laws, no bosses and only do whatever they want. No other creature in the world has come so close to ideal anarchy.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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modified 19-Jan-21 21:04pm.
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Ahem. The Earth is closer to an oblate spheroid or oblate ellipsoid than a sphere.
This space for rent
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Yeah, but if you start a joke with "oblate spheroid" and people think you are pretentious.
Pretentious? Moi?
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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OriginalGriff wrote: joke
Oh, thaaaats what it was! 
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I taught myself to program some 30 years ago and tried to keep up with the evolution of C all the way to C# and WPF. However, I always felt that there were gaps in my knowledge because I was never involved in a formal programming course. So a fortnight ago I came across an intermediate level Microsoft C# programming course offered on-line by edX. I promptly enrolled and finished the course in about 10 days of intensive work. I suppose I already knew some 80% of the content, but the rest filled quite a few gaps in my C# knowledge.
I feel my knowledge is more comprehensive and to boot I got a nice Microsoft certificate to hang in our study!
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
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I'm in the same boat. Self-taught. Have looked for some books to help fill in gaps but haven't found any. It's hard to tell if they are too simple or what I need.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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The course used the book: Microsoft Visual C# 2013 by John Sharp. It is available from Amazon and is stated to be for "Intermediate level". You can also take a look at: C# 6.0 and the .NET 4.6 Framework by Troelsen and Japikse that is published by Apress. I haven't read it yet, but it seems very impressive.
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
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Thanks, I'll take a look.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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If you only buy one book, I would recommend the one by Troelsen & Japikse.
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
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Good job on getting through the course; self-improvement is a good attribute to retain.
That being said.. courses have always been a dissapointment for me.
I taught myself 18 years ago: started with C++, got a basic grasp on it in about 2 years.
To get a better understanding, I did 4 years of University (mostly for theoretical data structures), 4 years of engineering (for low-level hardware communication), and one year applied sciences (line-of-business applications).. done it all.
My conclusion so far is that most courses are of dubious value.
The various concepts they teach are.. mm.. sub-optimal for real world scenario's.
In the real world, it's all about the cost of the actual code. Both in terms of project length and complexity to verify / maintain the result.
Translated to concepts, courses ignore the following essential skills:
- figuring out who has already done your job
- how to glue bits together with easy to understand and reliable C# language concepts
- refactoring for ease of maintenance / minimal LoC
(minimal LoC is often synonymous to ease of maintenance, but not always; overly dense lambda's or LINQ queries come to mind here)
- code etiquette; the amount of projects with obtuse naming schemes is too damn high! rsObtuseAF_Flg = true
(..if your naming scheme has more then 3 variations, please refactor before you get hit by a bus)
The most usefull skill I've learned in various courses:
I understand the entire stack. I can pretty much deploy anything anywhere.
(my current favorite stack is URCT with C++ redist and mono to get .NET 4.6 on legacy Windows devices)
The least usefull skill I've learned in various courses:
How to design time-efficient algorithms.
Never do this, they're just not worth it; regular mortals are terrible at maintaining somewhat complex algorithms.
If you have to, always make stupidly easy algorithms, so average people have a good chance of succesfully maintaining your code 10 years from now.
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Programming was one thing, but there were a couple of things I learned that carried me this far, and continue to do so:
1) Ed Yourdan's Structured Analysis and Design (taught by Tom DeMarco)
2) SAP Business Process Engineering; specifically Event Driven Process Chain (EPC) diagramming.
No other way could I deliver a system of significant size.
(Still think UML is / was more of a "thought" exercise with limited practical application; i.e. no "data flows").
"(I) am amazed to see myself here rather than there ... now rather than then".
― Blaise Pascal
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Schwarzenegger is to play the lead in a new film about 18th century musicians. There'll be a sequel – you know he’ll be Bach.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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I think I hear someone rotating in his grave - at about 20000 rpm.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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