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@John-Simmons-outlaw-programmer : I know you are a big Mustang guy, do you drive a stick-shift or an automatic? If the latter does it have those optional paddle shifters?
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Manual. However, the new 10-speed automatics coming out have proven to be as good, if not better, than a manual on road courses. The down side is that automatic transmission raises the cost of the car by at least a few thousand dollars, so they're more expensive than their manual trans counterparts.
Paddle shifters are gay.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
modified 17-Aug-17 9:52am.
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Conversely, finding a used car with a manual will most likely drop the cost considerably. My sister purchased a 1 yr old S10 Blazer for 11K USD while the automatics were costing 20+.
Similar ability to driving with a carburetor on a well used car, you know the kind where you don't need an alarm because it takes a special combination of actions to start it and warm it up.
Bonus if you can get both a carb & a stick.
Director of Transmogrification Services
Shinobi of Query Language
Master of Yoda Conditional
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Paddle shifters are gay.
Heh  I guess it gives automatic transmission owners the feeling that they are driving a semi-manual.
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im here in the us and drive one every day 
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Yay for me! Hopefully two of my three vehicles are 'out of scope' for potential car thieves. 
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My first car, an early 60's hilman I needed to double clutch particularly changing down - didn't know that that car was so far ahead of it's time.
These days all the things that were wrong with automatics (used more gas, needed repair more often, costlier) are no longer true. For ordinary driving particularly commuting (i.e. traffic jams) auto really is better - no longer young so way past the need to drop wheelspins at every traffic light. For driving between cities auto/manual same-o same-o (but consider for very long drives usually cruise control integrates better with auto).
One stage had 15 cars - mostly auto but had one well set up older manual (and well tuned muscle memory to suit) in which I'd beat any auto and most motorbikes off the line for the first km or so without even thinking about it (most fun was leaving idiots in brand new bmw's behind that tried to pass before lanes merged.) But at the time though most favourite when running local was a 50cc scooter (they called "auto" but in fact some sort of clv set up), could park it anywhere, bypass most jams, and it ran for a fortnight on half a gallon of gas. Top speed 50km/h (30 mph) - could do 60 down hill - fast enough on little wheels.
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Quote: These days all the things that were wrong with automatics (used more gas, needed repair more often, costlier) are no longer true.
While I broadly agree with you, the auto's still need repairs more often than manuals. A manual g/box can easily do 500000km while the auto one has to be opened up to replace the clutch-packs at 250000km-300000km.
The situation is a lot better than it used to be. In the past you'd need to replace clutch packs in an auto every 100000km-140000km, but it's hard to beat the simplicity of the manual g/box design with its external clutch (which gets replaced independently of the g/box).
modified 17-Aug-17 9:16am.
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I had to replace the clutch on my 2001 Golf after 300k miles.
From what I've seen, the "just as good" amounts to only getting 90% - 94% of the mileage of a manual, when you can find an equivalent car.
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My friend came back from Europe. He was stopped at a light in a rental.
And the car "stalled"... Later he realized, no, it just shut the engine off to save gas!?!?
It came back to life like a golf cart does, he said it took a while to get used to it, but it was different...
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And an automatic is somewhat like a wheelchair for idiots.
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That's harmless. You know you are sitting in the wrong seat when the parking brake has a twist grip for the throttle, like this.[^]
The user can't update the up: we update it for them (Choice in the CP poll)
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That's a helicopter! You are really in the wrong seat!
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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Finally somebody noticed that.
A parking brake with a throttle grip! And it's on the left side of the seat!
The user can't update the up: we update it for them (Choice in the CP poll)
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In which case, that's not a parking brake, it's collective pitch. 
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ALWAYS manual. I know some people think that makes me a Luddite but I don't care...
One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas, I don't know.
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Automatic transmission is for women & Google( I mean for their autonomous cars) 
Starting to think people post kid pics in their profiles because that was the last time they were cute - Jeremy Falcon.
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Hey now.... I have a 74 Nova with a twin-turbo 8.1L big block and a Th400 (3 speed auto) with a manual valve body and B&M Pro ratchet shifter (clicky click). I wouldn't say its for women because it scares the living crap out of my mother-in-law.
Senior Software Engineer / Automotive Hacker
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I haven't bought an automatic in 25-30 years, and even then, only because we needed bench seats front/back, and that was the only way to get them.
Besides costing less, and keeping you in touch and aware of driving (safety), there's some hidden advantages. Many (perhaps most) people can't drive one. No one wants to borrow your care. If not sporty, but instead, economy, less likely to be stolen.
Time to buy? Near end of model year, the dealer's much more likely to bargain when the vehicle's harder to sell. I bought a new 2012 after the 2013's came out. They knew I was doing them a favor. If I leave, they'll continue to pay interest on the vehicle (to the manufacturer) - and the money borrowed for it could be used for a shiny new car that they could sell - if I buy.
The only time I'd switch to automatic is if I moved to where I'd be frequently caught in extremely bad traffic. On the other hand - if I lived in such a place, I'd take public transport, anyway.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos wrote: Many (perhaps most) people can't drive one.
You must be an American
Over here in Europe, or at least the Netherlands, manual is the standard
I wonder why you guys use automatic and we don't...
We have very few roads where you can drive without changing gears for at least 15 minutes, it seems to me that you have a lot more of those!
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Well, more than anything else, marketing.
Also, as the national ownership of vehicles became nearly universal, the number of those who couldn't/wouldn't learn to drive when it was a standard transmission could now just step on the gas peddle and go.
Like so many things, it's part of the conflicting concepts of something being egalitarian and 'dumbing down'. Elitism vs Competency.
Not necessarily gospal w.r.t. statistics, but it's probably in the ballpark:
The disappearing stick shift: Less than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions[^]
I like the feel of doing things - so I don't mind - and even prefer by nature - the standard.
Most people want everything done for them.
Cooking from scratch vs. Frozen Dinner.
javascript vs. jQuery vs. etc etc etc.
Which opens up a whole new discussion.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Guess where I got the inspiration for this hamburger:
Let's begin with some traditional stuff: Bun, two beef patties (with molten cheese inbetween and some fresh tomatoes.
And then this: Mayonaise, curry ketchup and chopped raw onion.
The user can't update the up: we update it for them (Choice in the CP poll)
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Manual, but only if you're willing to heel toe shift.
BREAKING FAKE NEWS: Trump told the truth!
modified 16-Aug-17 7:13am.
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wait are you saying there is another way 
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yes, there is: the two-handed-no-clutch-way.
BREAKING FAKE NEWS: Trump told the truth!
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