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...are masochists.
(it's been a rough day with Android)
I just need to add that trying to find and run an actual Xamarin example project for Visual Studio that works out of the box seems nigh impossible.
What has happened to development? We used to share code, throw it at a compiler and it would compile. That's simply not the case these days. Nuget packages disappearing or being updated so they provide conflicts with other libraries; the npn nightmare of downloads hundreds of Mb of packages; The mind boggling Android SDK hunt and seek (and make sure you have plenty of disk space); the soul destroying walled garden around iOS development. Not to mention the explosion of here-today-gone-tomorrow frameworks.
Something's gotta give. This space is ripe for an upheaval.
cheers
Chris Maunder
modified 23-Oct-17 21:17pm.
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Chris Maunder wrote: Nuget packages disappearing or being updated so they provide conflicts with other libraries; the npn nightmare of downloads hundreds of Mb of packages
And NOW you want to bitch about open source and the fracturing of the tech stack. BRING BACK SILVERLIGHT. Now there was a tech stack I could deal with.
I know you are talking about android development but the same argument applies.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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And people wonder why I still haven't moved onto mobile development. I'm still waiting for things to settle and a clear winner to be identified. Frankly at this rate I'm beginning to doubt I'm ever going to do any serious mobile development before I retire (and I'm in my 40s).
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Everything will boil down to TypeScript and HTML.
Or, and this is a long shot, C# will win. Microsoft are killing it with their work on cross-platform. That would make me laugh till I cried.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Apparently the guys who develop this framework (ahem Microsoft now) don't develop any android apps ....
Caveat Emptor.
"Progress doesn't come from early risers – progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things." Lazarus Long
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So glad you posted this. It's all so true.
It's more about tooling and libraries and hunting and all that bother than it is about actually programming.
I complain about Xamarin and in the same moment I think it is quite amazing and quite terrible.
It does all this -- suddenly turns to it does nothing!
I develop native Android and think, "You know what I think Android is the best of all. Then I run into this problem -- Android Nougat: Why do checkboxes on Fragment have incomplete state when selected programmatically (but look fine on Lollipop) - Stack Overflow[^]
...and I think Android is terrible. 
I move begin work on native iOS on the same app and I think, "Oh no, I have to do all that stuff again. Give me Xamarin!"
Then I switch it up and write the app as a Web app (HTML5, JavaScript, Bootstrap) and I go crazy all over again. All because of caching issues with JS and weirdness on specific mobile devices.
The WinForm app works really well, but of course when anyone wants to install it then Windows warns them it's an unsigned app and could be dangerous. 
Well, that means I need to get it into the Win10 App Store, but to do that I need to write it as a UWA. Arghgh!!!
Man, can I catch a break? You're worn out by the end of the day.
Then, the sun rises and you try it all again. 
I thought it was supposed to be one world with one platform by now, eh? 
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raddevus wrote: Then I switch it up and write the app as a Web app (HTML5, JavaScript, Bootstrap) and I go crazy all over again
You mean it's not even easy as a HTML app? 
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote: You mean it's not even easy as a HTML app?
Easy, yes.
Complicated? Definitely.
There's no firm foundation out there. Everything is shifting sand.
Microsoft, the world was easier when you pwned us devs. 
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raddevus wrote: Microsoft, the world was easier when you pwned us devs.
That's so sad because it's so true and it makes me feel dirty and wistful at the same time.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote: makes me feel dirty and wistful at the same time.
That's the perfect explanation of how it feels. 
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raddevus wrote: I thought it was supposed to be one world with one platform by now, eh?
I believe this classic xkcd[^] applies.
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Jörgen Andersson wrote: this classic xkcd[^] applies.
That is probably the best explanation of the situation I've seen.
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The only way I can see around this is if some new framework which includes a virtual machine that has all the dependencies resolved comes into existence. The framework vm would then need to kick out the binaries with all dependenceis mathematically proven. Then developers will have a development environment that 'works' and a deployment that is proven.
I say all of this from living in cloud cuckoo land...
One of the issues I have seen where we all pull from trunk and 'some people' download and make changes that are then not submitted to trunk so that the build works perfectly locally for them but then trunk is broken and it takes a few days to fix trunk.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
modified 24-Oct-17 4:26am.
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Would require actually hiring people.
Wish me luck! (I seriously doubt the company, a global company) will go for it, as it will require them front-loading 50% of the payment for the staffing process, but I figure my proposal could at least serve as a baseline for vetting proposals from "real" companies that already have the existing staff to handle something like this.
Who knows.
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Or possibly, your proposal will provide the method for them to do the project in house and the cost to justify not out sourcing.
It's happened to me on major difficu;lt engineering projects. They had the people and the resourcxes to do things in house, but didn't have anyone who knew what to do.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E.
Comport Computing
Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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Walt Fair, Jr. wrote: your proposal will provide the method for them to do the project in house and the cost to justify not out sourcing.
I was actually going to suggest that they use in-house people and I can provide the overall architecture and project management skills.
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So, is it $1.2M if you run it; or if someone else runs it?
The implication is, since you know more, any other response should "cost more" due to exta ramping; which makes your estimate (too) "low"?
(We estimate ourselves; then we project).
"(I) am amazed to see myself here rather than there ... now rather than then".
― Blaise Pascal
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Good luck! 
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Hey, you don't get anything you doh't ask for. Good luck man.
Jeremy Falcon
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1.2M is, what, 6 full time salaries for a year including benefits and costs? A decent sized company should see that and not have a problem at all if the outcome is solid.
Go in, go hard.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Is that your estimate of the turnover, or of your profit? 
My great-grandfather used to say (translated from Yiddish) that "turnover is vanity; profit is real!"
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack.
--Winston Churchill
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I took on a side project a couple of months ago doing enhancements to an MS Access app. The guy I've been working with has quit. He told me that the company wants to continue using me. I think I'll be working one on one with the owner.
So, I see this as an opportunity to move them from Access to .Net. If they do it will most likely become a WPF app.
What I need is persuasive information. Just saying "Access sucks" won't do it. So, how would you approach this? What arguments can you give to help them decide to move to .Net?
If it's not broken, fix it until it is.
Everything makes sense in someone's mind.
Ya can't fix stupid.
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Shirley there is enough technical debt and a cetain lack of maintainability that can only be cured with a little architecture?
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
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What in Access is giving problems? Why do you want to trash Access, Answer that question and you'll know what to present. If you can't answer it, maybe you should keep Access.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E.
Comport Computing
Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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Here are the reasons I dislike access and agree with the OP.
1. Flaky on large scale deployments. We have experienced random issues when going over 4 users.
2. You always add in some code so you have to adjust the trust settings. So every time you deploy to a new user you have to go manually adjust their trust settings.
3. Most of the users set the trust setting to enable all macros. This creates security issues.
4. Instead of using a weblink (unless the OP was talking about a native application) you have to set up shared drives (yes I know that you can do webpages too but....). You can do that with a logon script etc, but again, added manual intervention.
5. Kicking people out of the database every time you want to make a change, no matter what it is.
I think there's more, but those are the major ones for me.
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