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Quote: If you try and get stuck, that's one thing.
Agreed. My point is I have seen some homework questions where they did show effort and the immediate responses by CP community where of no help.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Yes...some members are rather intolerant of beginners, and if the question is not phrased exactly correctly they are unnecessarily rude and unhelpful - I suspect it makes them feel big to pick on newbies... Pity, because apart from their complete absence of interpersonal skills most of them are actually competent and in some cases very good technically. Shame that their personalities don't match that level of technical expertise. 
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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OriginalGriff wrote: complete absence of interpersonal skills, most of them are actually must be competent and in some cases very good technically
Sounds like a job description for a developer. 
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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RyanDev wrote: My point is I have seen some homework questions where they did show effort and the immediate responses by CP community where of no help.
So every question that you have seen that wasn't a homework question had only helpful answers?
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How does this make sense in your brain? You always go off into the weeds. No thank you, I'm not going on that crazy train with you today.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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RyanDev wrote: How does this make sense in your brain?
Because when you say
"My point is I have seen some homework questions where they did show effort and the immediate responses by CP community where of no help."
If in fact that happens on all types of questions, not just homework questions, then your statement is irrelevant in terms of just homework questions.
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Quote: then your statement is irrelevant in terms of just homework questions.
No. It is my statement and it is what I said. You can't change it and then claim it to be mine still. You may see a relation to something else but you are expanding the context, not me.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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RyanDev wrote: You can't change it
Since I didn't change it that statement is as irrelevant as the first (no context relevant to other questions.)
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There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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OriginalGriff wrote: posted his tutors email so we could send the solution directly for him
Oh, yeah, I had forgotten about that one.
You'll never get very far if all you do is follow instructions.
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OriginalGriff wrote: his tutors email so we could send the solution directly for him.
Oh! my! I wish I had seen that one! His tutor would have been surprised at my solution!
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OriginalGriff wrote: Asking a question is fine: but I do draw the line when they post the actual homework question (complete with the question numbers, and the date it is due to be handed in occasionally) and ask for code!
Give them code that doesn't work. 
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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Persuading others to do your work for you is a wonderful skill to learn.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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 Indeed. Most bosses have figured that out.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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chriselst wrote: Persuading others to do your work for you is a wonderful skill to learn.
Essential if you are going to manage a project.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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Easy. When the responders started giving away the answers, giving the OP, literally, "copy'n'paste this code" answers.
Is the OP going to learn from having their code written for them? Absolutely not.
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Quote: Is the OP going to learn from having their code written for them? Absolutely not.
My point was that when someone does show effort if it looks like homework often the first response is to attack. It shouldn't be that way.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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I've seen a ton of homework questions. Rarely have I seen the effort put in by the OP, but I'm happy to see it when it's there. I still won't give a code answer, but I will tell the person where they are going wrong and what they should be looking at/researching.
But, of course, there's a bunch of people who don't understand the difference between effort and the lack thereof and just attack anyway. I don't see that too much, but when I do that person gets attacked.
But, much more prevelent is the problem where the responders just give the answer in code without discussing what's going on or why. I think it's more of an exposition of the responders ability to answer such simple questions than it is of helping the person out or teaching them how to do the research to answer their own question. It's these people I just cannot stand.
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote: I still won't give a code answer,
You and me both. I prefer to point them in the direction they need to go and let them get there themselves...
What I really hate is when I am doing that, and someone else comes in and posts a full code block...
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If I have the power, I remove those posts or "edit" them to get rid of the code.
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I hope with the permission of the responder.
Gus Gustafson
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote: Absolutely not.
Not sure I agree with that.
Some would be helped by that. They will look at it and figure it out.
Others might be helped because sometimes just getting anything to run at all can be a major part of the problem and frustration.
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Yeah, there's way too many "students" that just copy'n'paste the code and turn it in without even trying to understand it.
It's real obvious when they can't pass the tests in class, right after they just turned in the project.
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Agree wholeheartedly with you on this one.
Any question asked should be treated essentially the same; if the OP asks for help, why not give it?
If responding to a guru or a novice, surely the skill in answering is to not just provide the answer, but some framework so the OP understands - which at the end of the day is what it's all about whether for a student or expert.
Sure, some posts will just be "please give me code to ..." but whether for homework or the next big thing in mobile apps, the response needs to be guidance toward the goal, and not just the solution on a platter.
When I have taught programming I actively encourage the students to look for help online if they are stuck; I usually guide them where to look, and monitor those resources and respond myself when I can - but it is astonishing how one can explain something twenty ways to a blank-faced student, then someone else (as often as not another student) can say "It's like, you know, when that thing gets bigger, and like the other thing, you know?" and the original student's face lights up with understanding!
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_Maxxx_ wrote: it is astonishing how one can explain something twenty ways to a blank-faced student, then someone else (as often as not another student) can say "It's like, you know, when that thing gets bigger, and like the other thing, you know?" and the original student's face lights up with understanding!
Sounds like, you know, when trying to teach you should, you know, learn to speak in terms that can be understood, you know what I am saying. 
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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