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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: which has some possibly serious drawbacks with the elderly, like hardly working at all
Hmm. This is actually a lie spread by the EU. The issue is that in the original testing, there were very few over-65s involved in the tests. The difference in mortality between the control group and the vaccinated is therefore a small number, and the number of those in the group who got C19 is small - possibly because, being over-65, they were less exposed to the virus (by design or by lifestyle). There is therefore not much data on the efficacy in over-65s, so its efficacy cannot be reported with a high degree of statistical confidence. However there is NO evidence that the efficacy is any less. That type of vaccine for other viruses has no "diminishing returns" with age and there's zero reason to expect it to be any different with the Covid vaccine.
What I find hilarious is the way the EU screamed the house down when their tardy ordering of vaccines left them short, and they risked a major international incident by trying to impose a hard border in Ireland, and in the EU (not a national government) conducting a raid on a private company. Having now accepted they're behind the curve in getting the AZ vaccine, they're now working hard spreading rumours that it's ineffective anyway. Absolutely pathetic at every step.
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Quote: J&J's less effective
Another other big lie ... J&J "is" being tested under current conditions, which include all the varients.
The other "stats" are based on earlier trials: different conditions (no South Africa, etc. variants).
In summary, the "experts" (there are some) say they are all probably of the same efficacy, though only J&J has "current" trial numbers to back it up.
And let's ignore it is a one-shot deal and doesn't require some of the exceptional handling required of the others.
J&J is going for a "billion" doses, so let's not Mickey Mouse them prematurely.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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The latest data I read (via MedScape) puts J&J at about 66%; and in South Africa, more like 50%. So far as that goes, then, if my wife and I both get J&J then it's more-than-likely that one of us is unacceptable (not even including the S. Africa, strains).
Susceptibility is the wrong parameter. What counts is what are your chances, after being vaccinated, that you will get seriously ill from COVID? That's the real story if you really think about it.
So far, the only reliable mass-data in a real environment is Israel. Heavily leaning towards the most susceptible (such as 65 & over), they've been using Phizer and Moderna. Both seemed to do what I'm looking for at barely below 100% efficacy.
As for the J&J, and AstraZeneca - I wish both of them good luck as that's like wishing us all good luck and is a sensible hope. On the other hand, I see motivations for a little fudging of statistics to restore confidence in their yet-to-be-authorized (in US) vaccines. Switzerland is withholding authorization for A-Z .
Meanwhile, at the time I'm writing this, France and Germany[^] are saying no A-Z for seniors. Considering how desperate the EU seems to be to get the stuff, it seems like there's something compelling about their decisions.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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The best vaccine is the one you can get.
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Cp-Coder wrote: Of those vaccinated I have not seen any reports of deaths directly attributed to the vaccine.
Would such a thing be reported? Has enough time passed (to know of the side effects)?
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles
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Has enough time passed to know the long-term health impacts of surviving covid (whether a serious case, moderate symptoms, or even none at all?) 
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I have zero control over the fact that I will most likely not be able to get my vaccine till next year sometime.
NY is way behind in vaccinations. My doctor's office contacted me with this delay, so it is fact, not fiction.
There are millions of people in the United States who want a vaccine but are no where close to getting one. I notice most reports don't mention that fact.
The fact that you got your vaccine (twice) tells me you are probably over the age of 65, or at least you should be. good for you. bad for us.
modified 5-Feb-21 12:01pm.
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Quote: The fact that you got your vaccine tells me you are over the age of 65,
Yes, we are 76 (both of us). And in Florida management of vaccine distribution appears to be a little better than in some parts of the country.
I can only hope that distribution will improve as more vaccines come on line. It's tough that you may have to wait till 2022!
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
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Slacker007 wrote: NY is way behind in vaccinations. My doctor's office contacted me with this delay, so it is fact, not fiction.
Quote: Governor Andrew M. Cuomo today updated New Yorkers on the state's vaccination program. As of 11AM today, New York's health care distribution sites have received 1,554,450 first doses and already administered 95 percent or 1,475,122 first dose vaccinations and 81 percent of first and second doses. Delivery of the week 8 allocation from the federal government is in the process of being delivered to providers for administration.
and so it would seem that NYS is about as caught up as it can be. I'd look for non-equitable distribution of vaccine. Was it fairly distributed on a per-capita basis or did some states (politically favored by the then current administration) get extra (thus shorting others)?
My (our) appointment is through a NY State site - from when I made it until it happens was roughly three months. Are you relying upon your personal physician to get the vaccine? If so, that could be the problem.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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8.4+ million people live in NY.
so your math/citing's does not cover half the population for NY.
I have been told I am in the 3rd wave/queue to get the vaccine. I have been told that most in the second wave/queue have not received their vaccine yet.
My doctor's office is not the problem. My doctor's office belongs to one of the biggest medical networks in the Albany, NY region.
I find it funny that people can get their second vaccination, and most can't even get their first.
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Slacker007 wrote: so your math/citing's does not cover half the population for NY.
You misinterpreted what I put completely. My citation of the state's progress is that they've distributed just about all the available vaccine they could. The state isn't failing - the vaccine supply (which was misrepresented by previous administration) is what is failing. You can't use what you don't have.
As for some getting second whilst others can't get the first? The second shot is pre-alloocated for the purpose after the frost is given. It has to be. The second shot is to be given 3 wks (4 wks for Moderna) after the first. That's what's been studied/authorized. To delay it so that more people can get their first shot would be asinine to a high degree. It is not know if a delay would weaken the effect - possibly, if delay is long enough, useless (start again?). So why risk wasting what you have available to satisfy the "me me me" of those who've not yet been vaccinated? To win their damn votes? Remember, too, that in all likelihood, those who get properly vaccinated (both doses) are also protecting us who are still waiting by reducing the number of carriers.
There's a problem with you having to wait but its a supply side problem more than anything else
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Quote: I find it funny that people can get their second vaccination, and most can't even get their first.
There was a talking head on TV yesterday, who was trying to make a case that the second shots should be delayed, so that all who want the vaccine should at least get their first shot. But he based his argument on fake facts: That the second shot works better the longer it is delayed. However, he could offer no proof of this statement.
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
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Hey, you got your vaccine. be happy. move on. I don't fault you for it. You are in the highest risk group there is.
I am 49 with pre-existing medical issues. If I did not have pre-existing medical issues, I would not get the vaccine. Call me what you want, but that is how I feel.
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Quote: You are in the highest risk group there is
Actually the age group 80+ is in the highest category. 
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
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Depends on who you are trying to convince. The majority of people want to be vaccinated but can’t due to supply limitations etc.
The people who don’t want vaccinations are not the type of people who use logic, statistics appropriately or even use facts for their decision making.
A Fine is a Tax for doing something wrong
A Tax is a Fine for doing something good.
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Some of the most intelligent people I know, don't want the vaccine.
Be extremely careful who "put down" because they don't want the vaccine.
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Slacker007 wrote: Some of the most intelligent people I know,
Well, that explains it!
(You should know someone would reply this way - at least I've relieved you of the tension of waiting).
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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and this is the reason 74+ million Americans voted for Trump.
Not everyone thinks like you do.
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P T Barnum said "there's a sucker born every minute."Slacker007 wrote: and this is the reason 74+ million Americans voted for Trump.
That number you quote is amongst the most persuasive proofs of that quotation I've ever seen.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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So, I leave this thread as I used to leave dabates with you in the soapbox.
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No debate there.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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If you mix alcohol and Viagra, do you get a stiff drink?
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Also coming out in a spray; it's for dick heads.
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You get e-wrecked.
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment
"Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
"I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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