|
How good is python for website development? What are your thoughts?
ed
|
|
|
|
|
Quote: How good is python for website development?
Well, first off, Python is not something you use for website development. But if you're talking about Python hosting a website...
Python is interpreted. Therefore slow. Very slow. I would not want to do DB work in Python, even if the low-level implementation is in complied C, the business logic would be in Python, and that would be dog slow for certain things.
That said, if all you're doing is implementing something simple, for example a website hosted on an SBC, then go for it.
If you want to use Python for anything complicated, then I'd suggest using Django as the web framework. That said, when I tried using Django a few years ago, some things were a bit of a WTF experience. Maybe things have improved.
Personally, I would never use Python for hosting anything but the most simplest of websites. Like displaying a clock. Oh wait, than can be done entirely in front-end JavaScript. 
|
|
|
|
|
I forgot to mention I am doing a small ecommerce website, with a limited number of users.
Albert Spangler
|
|
|
|
|
Slow Eddie wrote: I forgot to mention I am doing a small ecommerce website, with a limited number of users.
Oh, then sure, go for Python. There are some decent eCommerce modules out there and some lightweight ORM stuff - theoretically, it should almost be plug & play.
|
|
|
|
|
Marc,
I wholeheartedly agree with you. I recently worked for a mid-sized company that decided to use Python/Django as their core framework for all of their web solutions. We had to transition from using .NET Core/Dagger/VueJS to this monstrosity. Hugely confusing and the framework design/architecture seemingly "thrown together" and SLOW. Why would anyone go this route. Did I mention SLOW? Needless to say, we didn't see eye to eye and I left to go do bigger and better things (in .NET Core and VueJS, of course  ).
Thanks
|
|
|
|
|
Oh wow, they dropped .NET Core for Python / Django? Why in the world would they do that? Let me guess - some manager's kid wanted a job and all they knew was Python?
|
|
|
|
|
First off, ignore people telling you that you can't build something big or good with Python and Django: 10 Popular Websites Built With Django
Secondly, check out Obey The Testing Goat to learn how - either buy the book or use the free online version.
Happy hunting.
------------------------------------------------
If you say that getting the money
is the most important thing
You will spend your life
completely wasting your time
You will be doing things
you don't like doing
In order to go on living
That is, to go on doing things
you don't like doing
Which is stupid.
|
|
|
|
|
Interesting, most on the list are quite braindead sites - not sure related to Django, but the cuts hurt me.
MI things, like music offerings on Spotify are quite good, on the other hand. YouTube algorithm is world-renowned for offers, too.
|
|
|
|
|
lol, if you think insta, mozilla, washington post, disqus, youtube and the others on that page are "braindead sites", then show me the world-changing amazing tech you made that solved All The Things.
No?
Didn't think so.
------------------------------------------------
If you say that getting the money
is the most important thing
You will spend your life
completely wasting your time
You will be doing things
you don't like doing
In order to go on living
That is, to go on doing things
you don't like doing
Which is stupid.
|
|
|
|
|
Last thing first, I develop small Python tools at work, so your chance to evaluate them is unbelievably close to zero. Python itself is a C-type cancer full with case sensitivity and equal signs used to mean let it be equal. Together with limited base number types, it is intended to destroy the financial and the statistical industry.
And with it's legendary energy efficiency, now our planet, too.
But let's see my original points.
Disqus
1. It notoriously messes with webpage content copied into a reply. Even after you manually killed the double line spaces, random line endings, the posted content may be different from what you have seen in the editor. What you see is what you get...
2. Good luck to jump to the thread from their site to the website, if the site uses their hide comments and comment pagination functions. Firefox/desktop at least two buttons, Chrome/mobile much worse
Instagram
It offers the stories of those you follow. One story can be multiple pages. One of the followed persons share 10+ pages of menstruation cycle calibration. Good luck skip the rest of the story and continue with the next person's story.
YouTube
1. It offer some social media website like functionality on the start screen, the "Latest YouTube posts" section. Good luck scan through them, especially they are organized into multiple rows. Computers are good at repeating things, like "pressing" back, down arrow, scroll, click next, aren't they?
2. Good luck trace back which post is answer to which post in a heated comment section, where ~10 commenter wrote 10-20 answers per commenter...
Pinterest
They send you an email about something their algorithm thinks could belong to one of your tables. You go visit them, choose one, then press the left arrow next to the picture. Good chance they will refresh your feed with new ideas (basically the home page) instead of going back to the collection offering.
From the honorable mentions list
Quora
You get an email digest. Click on a link, opens in the mobile app. Of course, it is truncated to less text than in the digest, with a Read more... label bottom right ...
You are welcome!
|
|
|
|
|
So... your main arguments against Python are:
- you don't like the syntax
- you don't like any example sites that I've mentioned
these all sound like "you" problems, not "python" problems 
------------------------------------------------
If you say that getting the money
is the most important thing
You will spend your life
completely wasting your time
You will be doing things
you don't like doing
In order to go on living
That is, to go on doing things
you don't like doing
Which is stupid.
|
|
|
|
|
Yes, syntax is awful.
"base class library" is more awful.
Especially for cross-platform development.
Don't trust me, just check the solutions for handling a key press without hanging while a key pressed.
Or executing an external command, and waiting for the result - now with bonus timeout from the blue!
Oh, and don't forget that deleting a non-existing file is an exception! Except when 3.6+ you unlink a non-link, because it 1) deletes the file 2) there is an argument for not throwing an exception for non-existing files 
Python is good for the Cool Kids to reinvent the wheel instead of solving real problems. Hence Guido is a good fit to the Outsourced New Microsoft.
|
|
|
|
|
Peter Adam wrote: Yes, syntax is awful.
Plenty of people who are super-stuck on "whitespace matters" have this opinion - I used to until I realised that it doesn't have to and the structure of python makes all python code look very similar - no brace wars, the requirement for self on class methods makes the way all OO methods work suddenly very clear. But to each their own - whatever language you could bring up as beautiful, I guarantee I can pick it apart too.
Peter Adam wrote: "base class library" is more awful.
Especially for cross-platform development.
I don't follow here (especially in the context of a web app) - I've found Python to be very good for exactly that - cross-platform dev.
Peter Adam wrote: Don't trust me, just check the solutions for handling a key press without hanging while a key pressed.
Stuff I'm finding for CLI tools is pretty-much how one would do it in many other languages (https://www.delftstack.com/howto/python/python-detect-keypress/) - if you're talking about blocking in some GUI framework, you'll have to be more precise because that's up to the framework (eg Qt), not python.
Peter Adam wrote: Don't trust me, just check the solutions for handling a key press without hanging while a key pressed.
Or executing an external command, and waiting for the result - now with bonus timeout from the blue!
If you're using os.system, you're delegating to the underlying libc implementation - not python's fault if it times out - rather use subprocess as documented in many places.
Peter Adam wrote: Oh, and don't forget that deleting a non-existing file is an exception! Except when 3.6+ you unlink a non-link, because it 1) deletes the file 2) there is an argument for not throwing an exception for non-existing files
This is pretty-much standard behavior in many programming languages - even though the final result is the same (the file isn't there after the call), it may be important to know that. Easy fix: test first, delete if present.
I don't see the point in responding to your last comment - it brings nothing useful to the discussion and merely exposes that you're aiming to hate on Python (and, probably any other tool that isn't exactly how you'd expect it to be) irrespective of the good points. It's like hating a screwdriver for not being a spanner.
Python is great for a large array of applications, not least of which is machine learning. Python is one of the two languages I suggest to new programmers to learn (either that or JavaScript - the former because it teaches good patterns and the latter because it's even more ubiquitous). It really sounds to me like you didn't try to get into the "pythonic" way of doing things - rather trying to make Python be whatever you expected of it. This is a common error many programmers make when trying to use any framework or language - and your response that Python is broken because it doesn't conform to your expectations is the typical response of the poor craftsman blaming his tools.
I really hope that you take the time to stop hating on it and rather love it for what it can do. No tool is perfect - Python included - it's best to use tools for the tasks they are good at and accept when they are not good at it. Python is good for myriad things, including the OP's question about web development, but, like any programming language, you'll get the most out of it if you're not trying to hammer it into the shape of the language you last used, but instead use it to learn new ways to do things - that you can take back to the bread-and-butter language you use as a daily driver.
------------------------------------------------
If you say that getting the money
is the most important thing
You will spend your life
completely wasting your time
You will be doing things
you don't like doing
In order to go on living
That is, to go on doing things
you don't like doing
Which is stupid.
|
|
|
|
|
I don't hate it just don't love it. All the exciting stuff - really nothing new under the Sun. AI? Do you remember that 90's newsreel showing how a film scanner found a dug-in Serbian tank on a film made by a drone?
Implicit Self? Nothing new for a Delphi developer - but why not implicit result variable for a function?
Yes, you can import a lot of externalies to have a basic INKEY() from the ZX Spectrum BASIC 🙂, but your mileage may vary when the multiplatform targets are Raspberry, CentOS and Windows.
Subprocess handling is vanilla subprocess. With the second timeout event when it can't kill it...
|
|
|
|
|
Thank you.
I forgot to mention I am doing a small ecommerce website, with a limited number of users.
|
|
|
|
|
you're welcome
you'll find that opinions are like assholes - everyone has one and most of them stink
make your site in django - it's a perfectly legitimate way to do it
don't listen to people who have blanket opinions about tech (php and vb ruled the software world for ages - but apparently everyone thinks they're rubbish?)
use what works, not what people tell you you should be using - if those are the same things, well, that's just an interesting coincidence.
------------------------------------------------
If you say that getting the money
is the most important thing
You will spend your life
completely wasting your time
You will be doing things
you don't like doing
In order to go on living
That is, to go on doing things
you don't like doing
Which is stupid.
|
|
|
|
|
You should use the right tool for the job, which may indeed be python.
Some will say "python is slow". Compared to what? yes if you were trying to serve 1 million concurrent users over a 1tb internet feed using a JSON database, but if all you want is a small ecommerce site with links to a SQL backend etc, then - on modern hardware - your pipe speed will be more limiting than python, unless you are running it on a very underpowered PC with very limited memory etc.
I have an interactive card payment system running in Python, plus a guest sundry supplies/services ordering system designed to run as a web app on Android and iOS phones. It can't render a film like SHANG-CHI in 4K+3D in under 3 seconds FFS!, but it can handle multiple concurrent users over a 1Gb pipe, plus talking to the bank card payment system and a SQL backend, despite being run on a small virtual machine hosted on ESX.
Remember, these days, by the time you've developed your multi-user. high throughput web host using the latest HTML5/<language of="" choice="">/<framework of="" choice="">, the framework will have had at least 3 updates, been deprecated or significantly changed or just gone out of fashion in favour of the latest of the 200 or so new or revised frameworks that were released during the previous 3 months!
Find a well-known, long lived toolset that is in widespread current use for your dev. The latest 'shiny' is just a distraction!
|
|
|
|
|
Thank you. The info I hoped for. I am just building a small ecommerce solution, that will have a limited number of users.
Vorbis
|
|
|
|
|
Probably as good as BASIC; the one with line numbers.
Nothing succeeds like a budgie without teeth.
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks for the reply, I think.
I forgot to mention I am doing a small ecommerce website, with a limited number of users.
I grew up with BASIC. I am still maintaing customers who are successfully running on programs I created with it, since 1984. GoTo is just another tool and works great, if you use it properly. If you use a saw in an improper manner, you will wind up bleeding.
I don't undestand why younger "trained" programmers hate it so much.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thank you for he reply. I will check out the link in your answer.
I forgot to mention I am doing a small ecommerce website, with a limited number of users.
Albert Spangler
|
|
|
|
|
I’ve used it for small websites used internally within the company I work for. Was fine.
I’d start with something like Flask, as it’s quite minimal, although you might prefer a larger framework like Django.
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p
|
|
|
|
|
Thank you for the reply. I will check out the link in your answer.
I forgot to mention I am doing a small ecommerce website, with a limited number of users.
You are the second person to recommend Flask, so I'm thinking it must be pretty good.
Moist Von Lipvig
|
|
|
|
|
|
General 
News 
Suggestion 
Question 
Bug 
Answer 
Joke 
Praise 
Rant 
Admin 
Submit an article or tip
