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Mike Mullikin wrote: Our founding fathers would not be pleased.
The recourse to the founding fathers is almost always specious. It's a 'call to antiquity' and usually divorced from reality.
Christian Graus
My new article series is all about SQL !!!
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Sure... drag the US into your complaints about an Australian and then ignore one of the few serious responses. Typical.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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Well, on the one hand, I think Australia has issues because we're following the road the USA has taken. This is OUR fault, but it's still true that the US is a signpost.
"In the US if you believe in personal responsibility and capitalism the left calls you a "nut job" and lumps you in with all the religious zealots who are trying to hijack true conservatism."
Well, I suspect you are right. I suspect there's plenty of people whose views are not as nutty as the extremists who get all the air time. The thing is, because those people get the air time, it's not an unreasonable assumption. It's up to you to disprove it.
I'm also not sure I am comfortable with 'believe in personal responsibility and capitalism'. If you believe that capitalism only hurts those who deserve to be hurt, then I disagree. Either way, I think it's not an unbalanced description of your position.
Was that rational enough for you ? :P
Christian Graus
My new article series is all about SQL !!!
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Christian Graus wrote: we're following the road the USA has taken
I don't believe its quite so linear. The US didn't blaze some trail that others are following.
Christian Graus wrote: It's up to you to disprove it.
Huh?
Christian Graus wrote: I'm also not sure I am comfortable with 'believe in personal responsibility and capitalism'.
What's not to be comfortable with? Do you believe that people are responsible for their own actions / inactions? Do you prefer capitalism or some other economic system?
Christian Graus wrote: If you believe that capitalism only hurts those who deserve to be hurt, then I disagree.
Not sure where you got that. People and companies (read General Motors, Chrysler, and all big banks) should be allowed to fail when they screw up. Thats the only way something better can rise from the ashes. Capitalism only works if there is true risk along with the chance for reward. On an individual level people also need to be allowed to fail. Charity and not government should be their salvation.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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Mike Mullikin wrote: The US didn't blaze some trail that others are following.
I thought it was generally claimed that the US did exactly that  One way or another, the US system is somewhat unique IMO, and certainly it's the one that is visible and whose culture permeates the rest of the western world at least.
Mike Mullikin wrote: What's not to be comfortable with?
I think it's a weighted description, not a dispassionate one.
I 'believe in capitalism', in that I think it's probably the best system on offer. I don't think it treats people equally or fairly, so I think it needs to be restrained.
Mike Mullikin wrote: Do you believe that people are responsible for their own actions / inactions?
Yes, that part I agree with strongly, I think that people look too often to blame someone else, or seek compensation for poor luck or poor choices. Your wording is still weighted. No-one DOESN'T 'believe in personal responsibility', not really. Your choice of words is weighted towards making the alternatives sound unreasonable.
Mike Mullikin wrote: Do you prefer capitalism or some other economic system?
It's not a dichotomy, our system can be broadly capitalistic, with some socialist elements ( which is what I prefer ).
Mike Mullikin wrote: People and companies (read General Motors, Chrysler, and all big banks) should be allowed to fail when they screw up.
Sure. But people whose skills happen to not pay well, should not be consigned to being taken advantage of by for profit companies beyond what is reasonable.
Mike Mullikin wrote: Capitalism only works if there is true risk along with the chance for reward.
Yes, on a corporate level, I agree 200%.
Mike Mullikin wrote: On an individual level people also need to be allowed to fail.
Depends how you mean. If I start a company, it should be able to fail. If I don't have highly prized skills, I should not be well paid, because I don't offer significant value. But, what I get paid should not be decided by supply and demand alone, with no respect for the human element.
Mike Mullikin wrote: Charity and not government should be their salvation.
That's the same as saying that adoption should replace abortion. It's assuming that a catchphrase works all the time, and that it will magically grow to meet requirements. It doesn't work that way. And it costs more, it's cheaper for government to, for example, run one health insurance scheme for everyone, than for many groups to do it, for profit. Competition does not negate the cost of multiple systems, multiple management, and the desire to return profit.
Christian Graus
My new article series is all about SQL !!!
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Christian Graus wrote: I thought it was generally claimed that the US did exactly that
Don't believe our propaganda. 
Christian Graus wrote: whose culture permeates the rest of the western world at least.
Only if you choose to allow it. Certainly every western country / society is responsible for itself. Too often people want to blame the US for anything they see wrong in their own society simple because it happens in the US as well.
Christian Graus wrote: I don't think it treats people equally or fairly, so I think it needs to be restrained.
True, but the areas and level of restraint are up for discussion. One size does NOT fit all.
Christian Graus wrote: No-one DOESN'T 'believe in personal responsibility', not really.
I think you're being naive. There are entire segments of nearly all western societies where generation after generation don't work. They rely solely on government programs for their existence.
Christian Graus wrote: what I get paid should not be decided by supply and demand alone, with no respect for the human element.
OK, but what if someone is too lazy to work at all - can't even be bothered with being dependable. As tax payers are we expected to feed them, clothe them, house them?
Christian Graus wrote: And it costs more, it's cheaper for government to, for example, run one health insurance scheme for everyone, than for many groups to do it, for profit. Competition does not negate the cost of multiple systems, multiple management, and the desire to return profit.
All debatable. I can't speak about other governments but the US government has proven time after time that it is HIGHLY inefficient and COMPLETELY untrustworthy. Our pre-ObamaCare systems were definitely broken but Obamacare is TRULY awful.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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Mike Mullikin wrote: Only if you choose to allow it.
Oh, I don't blame the US. It's still true that we follow everything you do, like lap dogs.
Mike Mullikin wrote: True, but the areas and level of restraint are up for discussion.
Absolutely. At which point, it becomes a nuanced discussion, which didn't seem to be what you were aiming for, at first.
Mike Mullikin wrote: I think you're being naive. There are entire segments of nearly all western societies where generation after generation don't work. They rely solely on government programs for their existence.
I know, they live down the road from me. But, if you asked them, they would not say 'I don't believe in personal responsibility'.
Mike Mullikin wrote: OK, but what if someone is too lazy to work at all - can't even be bothered with being dependable. As tax payers are we expected to feed them, clothe them, house them?
Apparently we are, and I agree that's not reasonable, or even viable.
Mike Mullikin wrote: I can't speak about other governments but the US government has proven time after time that it is HIGHLY inefficient and COMPLETELY untrustworthy.
Mostly because both sides are more interested in blaming each other, than making it work. But, at the same time, what you pay for health care, or even health insurance, is obscene compared to what we pay. So, your system is clearly broken, in financial terms.
Mike Mullikin wrote: Our pre-ObamaCare systems were definitely broken but Obamacare is TRULY awful.
Mostly because of compromises to create a system that stood any chance of getting through.
Christian Graus
My new article series is all about SQL !!!
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I liked the bird cage review the most.
"Bastards encourage idiots to use Oracle Forms, Web Forms, Access and a number of other dinky web publishing tolls.", Mycroft Holmes[ ^]
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*grin* yes, to the point, succinct, also a winner.
Christian Graus
My new article series is all about SQL !!!
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The shocking thing is that he is a senator and as such should tow the party line 100%. Tony doesn't seem to be in a hurry to do anything about it though.
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I wonder if Tony is happy to test the waters for a bit, and doesn't actually disagree.
Christian Graus
My new article series is all about SQL !!!
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I 'liked' this one:
"...I learned that Adolf Hitler was a very moderate, balanced, caring and compassionate man..."
My grandpa would say otherwise I'm sure!
So Australian - be prepared!
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If mainstream parties dont do something about Islam this kind of politics will get in power.
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Mainstream parties are not idiotic enough to ever want to 'do something about Islam'. But, of course, the lunatic fringe of Islam loves people like you. the more you say things like that, the more you push people towards extremism, by negating the legitimacy of anything else.
Christian Graus
My new article series is all about SQL !!!
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DNFTT! 
Never underestimate the power of stupid things in large numbers
--- Serious Sam
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"I didn't pay to read it, but I would really like my money back." 
Never underestimate the power of stupid things in large numbers
--- Serious Sam
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Getting information off the Internet is like taking a drink from a fire hydrant.
- Mitchell Kapor
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Why should I care what that moron says? I say more BACON!!!
"I've seen more information on a frickin' sticky note!" - Dave Kreskowiak
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I am sure that talking like that sells his records and gets him laid.
Christian Graus
My new article series is all about SQL !!!
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Take it to the Soapbox so you can have a proper rant at the subject.
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It wasn't a rant; more along the lines of utter incredulity.
However, if it makes you want to rant then you have my blessing. Feel free...
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair.
Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection
nils illegitimus carborundum
me, me, me
me, in pictures
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Enjoying meat is more like necrophilia.
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mark merrens wrote: rape, violence, murder
May be that's what he does to poor animals before eating them.
"Bastards encourage idiots to use Oracle Forms, Web Forms, Access and a number of other dinky web publishing tolls.", Mycroft Holmes[ ^]
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