|
The code functionality has not been improved, but the maintainability has. A lot of people seem to neglect maintainability, which I consider to be part of professionalism.
Performance, give me a break. I clearly said that I was talking about the code attaching the event which doesn't take "a few hundred milliseconds for loading" if you have at least a 14.4 K modem. Ignoring, missing or manipulating that critical point makes me think you don't have a valid reason. I doubt very much that Steve Souter maintains code. That task goes to the sergeants, not the officers.
Well, I do bet that developers that maintain code have far more knowledge of what makes code maintainable or not than do developers with no experience maintaining code. That is much of my point, we have a current fashion that I think is promoted by people that do not maintain code and so they do not promote coding practices that take maintenance into account. I am giving an opportunity here for anyone that wants to support the other position and you sir, have failed badly.
|
|
|
|
|
Member 7980583 wrote: I doubt very much that Steve Souter maintains code. That task goes to the sergeants, not the officers.
You clearly don't know who you are talking about. Taking into consideration the fact that you are willing to sacrifice any level of performance goes to show you support your version of readability versus the fact of performance.
Member 7980583 wrote: I am giving an opportunity here for anyone that wants to support the other position and you sir, have failed badly.
I pointed out facts identified and used by all of the major web companies. You have pointed towards your preference of how to read the code and minimized the fact of performance by saying somehow that it's minuscule.
There are so many other groups and organizations that support the idea of unobtrusive javascript. There is the The Web Standards Project[^] manifesto on this subject as well.
But hey if you want to ignore site performance and web standards then by all means please continue to do so. I wonder how you would present ignoring facts like performance and web standards to a customer or potential employer?
you want something inspirational??
|
|
|
|
|
Quote: you are willing to sacrifice any level of performance
and you are clearly willing to sacrifice maintainability... so there... Besides "any level of performance" is just another exaggeration. You invalidate yourself that way.
Quote: minimized the fact of performance by saying somehow that it's minuscule.
It is minuscule and I pointed out that your claim that it was "hundreds of milliseconds" was so absurd that I felt it invalidated your argument.
Quote: I wonder how you would present ignoring facts like performance and web standards to a customer or potential employer?
I would point out that when I put the topic up on the Code Project site for discussion, the only argument against it was something about that less than 100 characters could cause a performance hit. It made no sense. Also, since it is considered standard that code be commented for maintainability and no one seems to do it, then standards, like maintainability, seem to get short shift when people feel like it. Further, I would point out that most comments on Code Project supported my position as has discussion with other senior developers that I work with. Employers always like it when I say that I write for maintainability more even than efficiency, unless appropriate.
|
|
|
|
|
Member 7980583 wrote: willing to sacrifice maintainability ...
properly coding to design patterns like MVC and the Document Object Model are sacrificing code maintainability?
interesting thought you have there. I have never heard someone say that properly using code and design standards goes against making the code maintainable. I would say your argument against patterns, standards and performance invalidates you even further.
Member 7980583 wrote: Further, I would point out that most comments on Code Project supported my position as has discussion with other senior developers that I work with.
so the handful of people who you say that are supporting your claims are going to invalidate the even larger handful of experts that work at companies like google and yahoo? or that these same set of people are also going to invalidate specific experts like Steve Souders (considered the expert in web performance).
you want something inspirational??
|
|
|
|
|
Where in the world did MVC come into this? FYI, that is almost exclusively a server thing and javascript events can only be in the View (Love that MVC). My main point was that not having the events bound to html elements where the element exists, makes for something akin to a goto statement, only worse. Where I come from, goto statements are considered a bad thing.
Where did the DOM come into this. The DOM is the playing field. I'm talking about the players and field gear that works on the DOM. You need to either clarify your mind or your communication... or are you just throwing out terms?
Quote: interesting thought you have there. I have never heard someone say that properly using code and design standards goes against making the code maintainable. I would say your argument against patterns, standards and performance invalidates you even further.
It does not conflict with patterns. You have not supported that it hurts performance. It is the standards that I am questioning and that you have completely failed to defend.
Here is the problem that you seem to fail to get.
Quote: like Steve Souders (considered the expert in web performance).
Yes, he is an expert in web performance, but my question was about maintenance, which is typically 50% of the cost of any commercial website and with the efficiency of MVC for development, I expect that percentage to be higher. My experience and the experience of a number of people that work day in and day out with javascript is that using that goto pattern is a bad idea. Again, your experts do not do the work I do. Worker bees often have practical realities that leadership does not deal with.
This by the way is why I also commented on the experience of the respondent. You sound very enthusiastic, but I have to wonder if you have spent the years maintaining code that are the reason I have asked this question on this forum. You have given two reasons to refute me. One is the standards that I am questioning and the other is performance, that you failed to support and gave a silly reasoning for. Put it this way. TCP/IP sends data packets. To add 5 onclick="doSomething(this)" statements in the html would be unlikely to require an additional packet being sent, let alone take your "hundreds of milliseconds" of performance hit. What I am rejecting is your "hundreds of milliseconds" of performance statement and so far, that is your only reasoned support for your argument. Defend that if you can and quit repeating authority. It is that authority that I am questioning with reason. Defend your argument with reason.
|
|
|
|
|
Member 7980583 wrote: Where in the world did MVC come into this? FYI, that is almost exclusively a server thing and javascript events can only be in the View (Love that MVC).
You clearly don't even know what you are talking about when it's come to Javascript. Might I recommend that you go read up on angular, backbone, ember and other javascript frameworks. MVC is a pattern widely used in Javascript and purely from the running context of the clients browser.
It is not exclusively a server thing as you are calling it.
As I said earlier take your lack of knowledge in certain areas as an opportunity to learn something. Just because your way makes the job easier for you in maintenance does not mean that it's the right way.
All of what you have said in support of your arguments are your own opinions. I have submitted not only my opinions based on over 20 years experience but expert advice on the very subject of web performance.
I personally tend to lean towards expert advice on subjects however you can believe whatever you choose.
you want something inspirational??
|
|
|
|
|
I'm with you, especially now that I've done some development with angularjs. Binding to expressions that run on your model is pretty damn sweet. That combined with directives, it's a very powerful framework that does so much right that I don't mind using a framework, and I generally hate frameworks.
|
|
|
|
|
Beth: I wonder if the groundhog saw his shadow?
Tim : I don’t care; it’s stupid; leave the groundhog alone
Beth: It’s just fun
Tim : Take those people dressed in monkey suits and have them poke a bear. Now that would be fun!
Beth: You’re sick.
|
|
|
|
|
Not for the bear.
I'm pretty sure it would be shot before it had managed to kill them all... 
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
|
|
|
|
|
poor bear 
he just wanted to Play with them
if(this.signature != "")
{
MessageBox.Show("This is my signature: " + Environment.NewLine + signature);
}
else
{
MessageBox.Show("404-Signature not found");
}
|
|
|
|
|
You surprised me - I thought for sure you'd see the groundhog as an opportune source for some alternate bacon.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
|
|
|
|
|
Tim Carmichael wrote: I wonder if the groundhog saw his shadow?
From CNN[^]:
"Punxsutawney Phil saw his shadow Sunday morning ... foretelling six more weeks of winter. ... according to analysis by the National Climatic Data Center, Phil is wrong most of the time." 
/ravi
|
|
|
|
|
| ?
We can’t stop here, this is bat country - Hunter S Thompson RIP
|
|
|
|
|
No milk today .... *sing*
if(this.signature != "")
{
MessageBox.Show("This is my signature: " + Environment.NewLine + signature);
}
else
{
MessageBox.Show("404-Signature not found");
}
|
|
|
|
|
|
Yes, we have no CCC, we have no CCC today!
I'd sing it for you to the tune of "Yes, we have no bananas", but my singing voice scares animals and small children.
Heck, it scares me too.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
|
|
|
|
|
What ever you do, do not scare the sheep.
|
|
|
|
|
Oops. 
Too late...
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
|
|
|
|
|
He sings "Baa Baa Black Sheep" to them.
PS. Can't resist.
|
|
|
|
|
pkfox wrote: ?
!
It was broke, so I fixed it.
|
|
|
|
|
I'm failing to see any downsides?
|
|
|
|
|
How many letters?
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
|
|
|
|
|
Maybe he is sick or ... hey think positive
|
|
|
|
|
On the upside, we don't have any EOTD post either. I was never interested in the CCC, even though I think it is fun for those who enjoy solving it. Whatsoever, asking for the CCC (which is always posted in the Lounge) when it clearly wasn't posted is nothing too intelligent. Go and ask DD[^] directly 
Clean-up crew needed, grammar spill... - Nagy Vilmos
|
|
|
|
|
Has leaden vodka messed up his presence? (2 5 4)
|
|
|
|
General 
News 
Suggestion 
Question 
Bug 
Answer 
Joke 
Praise 
Rant 
Admin 
Submit an article or tip
