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And yet their development tools are going in exactly the opposite direction. You spend more and more time on the tooling than the business logic.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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As long as we're ranting, last night the only options when I went to shut down a W10 box were: Install Updates and Restart or Install Updates and Shutdown. Not a problem then; but those're exactly the worst two options to have to choose between when the power is out and the UPS is counting down to a hard crash.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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My current contract is coming to an end and I'm trolling for work again.
Every time I go through this I typically see more web based work than anything else, and being a purely Windows guy I have always felt a sense of dread when trying to considering learning web development. My idea of web development is something like this[^].
It seem like there are WAY too many technologies to learn to truly be effective, yet if I want to stay employed it seems that I've got no real choice.
Can you guys definethe stack that I REALLY need to learn, so I can focus in on what I need?
Thanks
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
modified 10-Aug-16 13:49pm.
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COBOL's the way of the future, Man!
I was told that in '73, and it was damned true!
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: I was told that in '73
1873?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Whichever century it was, it was more than fifty years from now, so it was a hundred years before you would ever get the chance of growing a brain.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I replied immediately after I read your message, troll.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Why doesn't your mommy love you? That has to be the only reason you chose to attack me every chance you get with insults that aren't even close to accurate or even related to the thread posting.
You are desperate. Grow up old man.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Attack you? I've never attacked you.
My replies to you are out of disdain, kiddo. You're a shining beacon of dimness in this place of higher intelligence -- and, as always, the thickest thinks he's the smartest.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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You make fun, but there's a grain of truth to that, especially if you combine COBOL with CICS. If you've ever worked with CICS, the web, in concept at least, ain't so strange.
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Weeell, yes, unless your company is gobbled up by another that's stuck with IMS/DC and kicks CICS out. Been there, done that and sold the T-Shirt 
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ICL's TPMS system was pretty much MVC back in the 80's
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heh.
It's really funny how we could make computers do anything we wanted with COBOL, Fortran, and all the other "old" languages, but now we seem to have trouble deciding how to make computers do what we want because we're spoiled for choice.
A change in language rarely means doing anything different; it normally means learning new ways to do the same thing.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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"A change in language rarely means doing anything different; it normally means learning new ways to do the same thing."
Well said!
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Southern California
Why does that matter?
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
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Kevin Marois wrote: Why does that matter?
Why indeed it does. The beaches are full of fully developed stacks! 
Marc
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Kevin Marois wrote: Can you guys define the stack that I REALLY need to learn
The one that will get you the job.
The one that you want to use day in day out
The one you can learn quickest, because it'll be redundant before you can say ASP.NET Core 1.0 Release Candidate 3
Given you're a Windows guy I'd just stick to bread and butter and learn ASP.NET MVC with C#. That'll get you most of the way there. For the backend use Entity Framework 6 (leave EF7 / EF Core for now - it's not baked) and for the front end learn Bootstrap for styling and maybe Angular 2 and TypeScript for the web based front end.
This will give you enough buzzwords for your resume and enough experience to muddle your way through whatever stack they thrust upon you. It's more about learning how to deal with stateless programming and the difference between client side and server side programming. Work that one out and it's all just a variation of the same.
If you want to just ditch Windows then what about PHP or Node.js? Either one is in hot demand and simple to learn.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Thanks Chris
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
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Chris Maunder wrote: For the backend use Entity Framework 6
My two cents here. If the site is light weight, the Entity Framework is okay. However, if the site uses any kind database transaction processing, needs to perform lots complex of queries, or if you ever need to generate complex SQL reports, as a former DBA, I would recommend against using EF in favor of a tailored data access layer. Tuning EF generated SQL statements is painful and don't get me started on how it creates its tables.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
Meus ratio ex fortis machina. Simplicitatis de formae ac munus. -Foothill, 2016
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So full disclaimer: I don't actually like EF either.
However: many shops do and it's worthwhile at least knowing it. If you're going to have to use it then you need to know how to make it behave.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Agreed, I wouldn't use EF for anything but CRUD.
But you can admittedly achieve a lot with just CRUD.
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I often think that with business apps, we are mainly pulling stuff out of a database & displaying it (screen or report) and frequently, that's it - occasionally we want to change/add some & put it back.
How does it get so complicated?
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Stewart Judson wrote: How does it get so complicated?
Developers that think they are smarter than everyone else make it complicated by trying to write code that says "look how damn smart I am".
No matter where you go, there you are...~?~
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