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OriginalGriff wrote: (64K RAM, one off 160KB floppy, monochrome text-only monitor, and a keyboard) was priced at around US$3,000. A top of the range model with EGA monitor (16 colours text, 320x200 graphics in any four colours of your choice from the available 16, and a printer) was US$4,500.
Go ahead and take a look what a TRS-80 Model 3 or 4 would have cost. These were still typical workhorses at that time.
Edit: Model 4 came later, that still leaves us with Model 3:
1980: July - Radio Shack introduces the TRS-80 Model III, priced from US$700 to US$2500.
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CodeWraith wrote: TRS-80
10 PRINT "Hello Adam!"
RUN
My first kiss!
... such stuff as dreams are made on
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Yes, for me as well. Had a little trouble with the parents and fled to a shopping mall where I found a freshly unboxed TRS-80 (Model I), turned on and the manual lying in front of it.
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Or if you were a bit more advanced, add
20 GOTO 10
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Not the frirst time around. First I just copied what I found in the manual, then I changed the text to be printed and sometime that afternoon I also learned the magic command GOTO.
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CodeWraith wrote: I also learned the magic command GOTO.
Yes and now we're being told to forget it 
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Which I stubbornly refuse to do. These 'rules' are for those who are to dumb to understand at which point something becomes problematic. I do this very rarely, but sometimes it's more important to keep a piece of complicated code contained in a method. No refactoring into other functions! Let's keep these eggs in one basket, despite all wise rules. Add a note that only I may work on that thing, and even then only with signatures from at least three bosses and only on highest holidays. There should be reasons for doing this and playing by the rules will break it.
In such a thing it can be easier to get out of some nested code using a GOTO than doing it with the 'good' if-else way.
In C or C++ such a function may often contain some inline assembly, providing one more good reason to keep everything in one function. That's very volatile code which you don't want to spread out all over the application.
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Quote: These 'rules' are for those who are to dumb to understand at which point something becomes problematic.
For those of us who haven't used a GOTO in 20 years, we can say the same thing about you.
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I did not want to offend you. It's just that I met enough people who could recite all kinds of rules as if they were holy commandments, but had not the slightest clue why it's not always a good idea to use these things. I don't think that those people are dumb. They have been made that way by training them to obey rules without questions.
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I also haven't used GOTO for many, many years. Not because of any "rule", just because my nicely structured code has never needed one - I haven't missed it.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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As it should be, but unfortunately not always is. The last time I saw that was a highly specialized and optimized core, around which practically all the company's products were built around. The normal (C++) compiler optimizations were not enough and time was really money in this case.
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No worries. We're good. 
I stopped using GOTO because I started thinking more about the structure of my code and getting into finer compartmentalization. This made my code more reusable and extendable. I stopped because I started thinking through the problems to be solved better.
I didn't stop using it because of some code apologist or evangelical corner of the industry coming up with "the rule". It was a side effect of overhauling problem analysis and better algorithm generation.
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CodeWraith wrote: all kinds of rules
For many years I did not even realise there was a "rule" that you should not use GOTO (or GOSUB). when I moved to .net (from vb6) it just never needed to be used, there were better structures available.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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And then one day (hopefully not) someone came and told you what you can or can't do - because Mr. SoAndSo said that. Basta.
I just don't need code monkeys. I don't want to become one myself and I don't try to make anyone a code monkey.
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I don't have a problem with GOTOs that jump backward (to a lower line number in the source file) in code. It's the ones that jump FORWARD (to a higher line number) that I hate.
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I literally shouvelled sh*t ti help my school buy 2 model II's.
Few months later was caned for playing on it when I was supposed to be in class (metalwork) - in font of the class.
Ah memories, stuff that today's kids will never get the chance to experience.
And I must admit:
1. caning (6 on the backside) really didn't hurt that much,
2. learning metal/woodwork back then means there's a lot of stuff I can do myself.
3. chainsaws are fun
signature upgrading ... please wait.
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Lopatir wrote: 3. chainsaws are fun
Anything destructive is fun at that age. Right after school they drafted me and taught me how to operate these.[^] Shooting with rifles and machineguns got almost boring. 
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Quote: machineguns got almost boring
...but not quite. There is nothing like the first time you fire a real machine gun. 
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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My first machinegun was this one:
Rheinmetall MG 3 - Wikipedia[^]
Just look at the rate of fire. 
TakkaTakkaTakka! (That's exactly NOT what it sounds like)
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This was mine: GPMG[^], "Gimpy" we called it.
I also fired a Bren[^] and a Stirling[^].
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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CodeWraith wrote: 1980: July - Radio Shack introduces the TRS-80 Model III, priced from US$700 to US$2500.
Amazing how much the price dropped in the next couple of years...my parents bought us a TI/99-4a at the end of '83 (I think) for around $100. No monitor, just hook up the console to a TV! Also, no HDD or even a floppy...cassettes! I still have it in the box! 
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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The prices dropped constantly as memory got cheaper and the competition got stiffer. The TRS-80 Model 3 was intended to be a professional machine with the best reasonable hardware options. Lots of memory, multiple disk drives, modems, large printers - all stuff that you did not find in a small home computer.
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I bought the TI99-4a in 1983 for $100 as well. TI had announced they were getting out of the small computer business and they all went on a fire sale across the country world. It was a great way to get into the game for a small price. I have some empathy for the people that bought it 6 months before for several times that, though.
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OriginalGriff wrote: We - nearly all of us - owe our whole job to that tank of a PC
I started out with Commodore machines back in '81, learned all my programming on VIC-20, C64 then Amiga A500. I recently bought a C64 and A1200, still a lot of fun to play around with..
After Commodore went under, I had to switch to PC's and most of the fun ended there.. 
Now is it bad enough that you let somebody else kick your butts without you trying to do it to each other? Now if we're all talking about the same man, and I think we are... it appears he's got a rather growing collection of our bikes.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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My two Atari STs have both problems with their floppies. In one the belt that spins the disk may have snapped and the other one's ejection button does not work anymore. I hope I get something at FleaBay. I did not want to buy anything there anymore.
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