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Eddy Vluggen wrote: How recently was your education experience?
In a european system? never. From your descriptions, I'll add that to my good-fortune list.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: They may know a thing or two on pizza's in Rome that may make a course well worth its money
Uh Oh! Pizza? On the way to the soap box.
I've had Italy's idea of pizza - I think their time would be better spent in NYC, just hopping from pizzeria to pizzeria.
The True Immortal - Their Can Be Only One! [^]
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Not stepping into that beesnest 
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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W∴ Balboos wrote: Where I work, one of the employees went to classes to become a makeup artist. On a good day she looks like a geisha who applied her makeup with boxing gloves.
The visuals...thanks, I needed that. 
So when you say she went...is it still work in progress, or is she done with the classes?
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dandy72 wrote: is she done with the classes?
She actually makes glorious note of it in her company profile - along with her other "degrees".
So - someone, somewhere - gave her scrolly-edged credentials to frame and wall-mount. Makes me wonder why I spent all those years in universities. No frame included with that stuff.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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First of all... I do know all is a "joke". It is just for the pleasure of debating.
Eddy Vluggen wrote: But I oppose the idea of having paid teachers offloading their work here
Actually what he proposed was them to take responsibility and answer their students (of course for free). If they had to invest their spare time answering here, what they are not able to explain in the lesson... I think that would increase their willing to do it right in the first place.
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Nelek wrote: First of all... I do know all is a "joke". It is just for the pleasure of debating.
I have done many courses in the Netherlands, and IT-education is a joke.
Nelek wrote: Actually what he proposed was them to take responsibility and answer their students (of course for free). If they had to invest their spare time answering here, what they are not able to explain in the lesson... I think that would increase their willing to do it right in the first place.
A teacher would already be answering those questions, and even be paid for it. If he/she doesn't, that's a choice. Doesn't mean I have to put up with them here.
I do agree with the sentiment that students should be more recognizable; some people here only need a few keywords, others need a lot of background-explanation, and it is sometimes hard to guess which of the two you're talking to.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: some people here only need a few keywords, others need a lot of background-explanation, and it is sometimes hard to guess which of the two you're talking to.
really?
I don't think so:
Case 1:
I need to do XXX, I have started like this but can't get further because YYY
What have you tried?: filled with code (doesn't matter if right or wrong, at least code)
Case 2:
copy paste the text of the homework
What have you tried?: "nothing as I am new" // copy paste of the field above // "please help, it is urgent" // "googled a bit, but found nothing I can use"
Case 1 gets help, case 2 should get a kick in the ass and be expelled of the course.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Nelek wrote: I don't think so:
C# Discussion Boards[^]
Don't think if you can lookup and link
Nelek wrote: case 2 should get a kick in the ass and be expelled of the course.
Case 2 shouldn't exist. If you leave the classroom you should have the equipment for that days homework. I can imagine some things being unclear, but I cannot imagine for the life of me that those questions in Q&A coming from people who are "studying the language".
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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You continue mixing the concepts and reading what you want...
Eddy Vluggen wrote: If you leave the classroom you should have the equipment for that days homework.
I have already agreed with you and I do it again.
Eddy Vluggen wrote: Case 2 shouldn't exist.
Case 2: Has nothing to do with the quality of the education, it has to do with the quality of the student, it complains about the students that don't even try it by themselves and prefer to get something to copy paste in the internet. And that has nothing to do with the teacher.
I have had crap teachers during high school and college as the rest of the world. But I tried it on my own, got errors, read things by myself in libraries (or more lately in the internet), changed some things, tried it again and learned from my own errors.
This is is what I considered case #1 and for what I have seen in all these years is... this kind of people always have and will always get help in CP. No matter how basic the question is as far as they show they tried it.
Needing help is NOT the same than expecting someone to do your job.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Nelek wrote: You continue mixing the concepts and reading what you want...
..must have been arguing too much with Matt 
Nelek wrote: Case 2: Has nothing to do with the quality of the education, it has to do with the quality of the student, it complains about the students that don't even try it by themselves and prefer to get something to copy paste in the internet. And that has nothing to do with the teacher.
I have yet to meet that student. The ones I know paid for an education, and are willing to put a little effort in it.
Nelek wrote: But I tried it on my own, got errors, read things by myself in libraries (or more lately in the internet), changed some things, tried it again and learned from my own errors.
If you expect that from a student, then why would said student have to pay for any teacher or course?
Nelek wrote: This is is what I considered case #1 and for what I have seen in all these years is... this kind of people always have and will always get help in CP. No matter how basic the question is as far as they show they tried it.
Not always, since they are sometimes flooded with messages that simply state that we don't do homework.
Nelek wrote: Needing help is NOT the same than expecting someone to do your job.
The latter one is often also from non-students, people who are already active in the workforce and don't even have a teacher.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: I have yet to meet that student. The ones I know paid for an education, and are willing to put a little effort in it.
I don't know if they pay or not for it, but if you just go to Q&A for a week you will find several examples of what we mean.
Eddy Vluggen wrote: Nelek wrote: But I tried it on my own, got errors, read things by myself in libraries (or more lately in the internet), changed some things, tried it again and learned from my own errors.
If you expect that from a student, then why would said student have to pay for any teacher or course?
I agree with you, that it should not be needed to do it. But if there is no other way to get the knowledge "you are paying for" because the teacher is that bad, at least do something against it and use the resources you have available due to that "paying for" (e.g. in my time: Laboratories, Library, specialized equipment...) and try to learn it on your own.
In one of the oral exams I had, my teacher started to ask me in deep detail because he thought I had copied the code instead of doing it myself. At the end, once the notes were given, before I got down of the tribune, he asked me... "and how did you do it? I have not explained that" my answer was "Yes, you bet you have not explained that, as well as many other things. But I investigated and asked teachers that do can explain". He got really angry and the rest of the people in the room started ROFLing. Luckily I had nothing to do with him anymore in the rest of my academic life.
Eddy Vluggen wrote: Nelek wrote: This is is what I considered case #1 and for what I have seen in all these years is... this kind of people always have and will always get help in CP. No matter how basic the question is as far as they show they tried it.
Not always, since they are sometimes flooded with messages that simply state that we don't do homework.
I see a lot of times people asking basics, getting help.
e.g. Q&A item or Q&A item
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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OriginalGriff wrote: ... and we might actually improve the quality of the next generation of developers.
Why would we want to do that? I'm going to need the odd bit of work in my dotage and it will be an awful lot easier to find if irksome young types don't get past the "plz send codez" stage.
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. - Mark Twain
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That's one option. Then again, there's always option B, prevent new posts, provide a link for Google, and provide instructions on using it
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"Can't we do it on our own, does it have to be a group activity?"
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Hey, you seem to have accidentally selected the joke icon.
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Sounds like those introverts are the only sensible people who ever changed a light bulb.
I mean, it is a small and simple one man chore after all (at least around the house)! 
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Leave the light bulb alone. Maybe it likes being off.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Yeah, maybe its an AI bulb and it's sulking...
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This is a thinly-veiled reference to the old joke:
Q: How many psychologists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: Only one, but it has to want to change
Software Zen: delete this;
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None. It's a hardware problem
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The hardware's too difficult to change, we'll fix it in firmware.
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I believe Enochlophobia is the condition your looking for and need to personify.
(I hope a lot of people aren't looking at this post).
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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