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Mycroft Holmes wrote: Is there any confidence this framework will become accepted.
I personally find the framework very interesting. I think Blazor is going to be incredibly a hit and that's because I see WebAssembly as actually superseding JavaScript. Sure, JavaScript and it's frameworks aren't going anywhere, but why would you teach a new programmer JavaScript when you can just teach them C#, Python, etc.. and have them work with simpler tools in a more performant environment?
That being said.. Blazor is still on it's experimental stage and we can't guarantee anything until it will be officially released.
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My disgust with the current web stack is unbounded, after the elegance of Silverlight and it's demise I walked away from web development completely, concentration on WPF - I like xaml binding.
So the attraction of a single development platform is very attractive. I just might devote some time to Blazor.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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Having been burnt in the past by poorly implemented (or withdrawn a la Silverlight) shiny new stacks/libraries/frameworks, I tend to treat the latest new stuff with caution. I now try to do as much as possible using only the standards that all browsers support. This makes my apps look pedestrian, but I don't have to maintain them as often.
It helps that my "clients" are tech types internal to the company. They are also less enamoured of the latest "shiny shiny" than the marketing types. 
IOW, you may not want to use it, but I predict that your clients/manager/marketing staff will insist that you do. 
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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Daniel Pfeffer wrote: but I predict that your clients/manager/marketing staff will insist that you do
Crap they LOVE shiny and the boss has an ear attuned to the latest and not so greatest. Although they are moving steadily away from MS products, python is the current flavour.
I want this for personal and possibly SME solutions from now on and there is no current project to work on so exploring is on the cards.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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Mycroft Holmes wrote: Crap they LOVE shiny and the boss has an ear attuned to the latest and not so greatest. Although they are moving steadily away from MS products, python is the current flavour.
Then you'll want to introduce them to this[^], they will love it.
Michael Martin
Australia
"I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible."
- Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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No framework is guaranteed to succeed especially uSoft.
Everyone has a photographic memory; some just don't have film. Steven Wright
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For as regularly as web frameworks go from the hot new shiny to a reviled legacy cancer with zero forward support aren't you stuck on the try new thing ... fall in love ... forced to replace it treadmill no matter what you do?
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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Mycroft Holmes wrote: I loathe the current web stack with it's myriad of javascript frameworks and have refused to have anything to do with it for LOB work.
Amen! Currently in a disagreement with a (mostly non-coding) business partner over the direction of one of our core LOB desktop apps. I want it to stay desktop, but she is convinced that it should 'go to the cloud' as a web application. 
Her reasons are 'Everyone else is doing it' and 'our customers expect it'.
My arguments against a cloud-based web app are:
0: it currently costs us $0 for a customer to download, install, setup, and use the product.
1: the majority of our customers are not interested in a cloud based solution due to local security policies.
2: the app in question relies heavily on imports from local sources. (direct connections to other vendor's databases, spreadsheets, textfiles, etc.) I've already seen what happens when a customer decides to move one or more of their key LOB apps to the cloud...Let's just call it 'data interruptus'...systems that used to share/feed/pull data from one another aren't talking anymore.
3: responsibility for the data(base). Simple...I don't want it. I'm quite happy with letting the customer's IT department do what they are being paid to do.
4: as for re-writing the desktop app to a web app, I only have two words. session timeout
So far, she is unconvinced.
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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don't be so technical, tell her how much it will cost (including all those database connections and ongoing work), how long it will take to build, then ask her who is paying for it.
don't forget managers think technical arguments are just IT people being lazy - after all anything is possible, but when money is involved it's their job to justify it to their bosses.
This internet thing is amazing! Letting people use it: worst idea ever!
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Wow. Support for .Net 2.0. Let's all take 5 giant steps back in time.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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It should remain experimental.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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.net CORE 2.0. BIG difference!
As a side note I would not ask if Blazor is the new Silverlight. It's a totally different thing. Blazor is based on web standards, WebAssembly being the most important, whereas Silverlight was a proprietary browser plugin.
The question is also a lot broader than Blazor, since it's really WebAssembly that is the interesting thing here. Blazor is just a framework to enable C# developers to utilize the power of webassembly.
So yes, I strongly believe WebAssembly is the future. Especially for LOB applications. Public facing websites will probably be running with javascript for years to come, but real applications will be WebAssembly.
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I read that it used Mono - that is *NOT* .Net Core.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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Trygve333 wrote: Another interesting discussion here
It's really not that interesting.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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Silverlight was a plugin. Blazor compiles to native web. Huge difference.
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The death of silverlight was a pain, that I am still feeling but I think ultimately the right thing, plugins such as SL and Flash were a stop gap solution to the limitations of HTML at the time. HTML / JS / CSS are much richer now.
However Blazor is just one implementation of Web Assembly aka webasm. see www.webassembly.org. webasm I think is here to stay as it's the logical next step.
But, as previously said this is experimental, so should not be used in production code at the moment.
So the question then becomes is Blazor worth trying, I would say yes, Steve Sanderson is the guy behind Knockout.js who is an MS employee and to me seems to be more of a developer's developer, rather than some of the self promoting media whores out there.
Personally I am waiting for it to become production ready and will move my code over to it when this is the case.
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Why is MS basing Blazor on .NET Mono, instead of .NET Core?
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I am not an expert, but I think it is because mono is more portable than .net core. And I am sure MS would love to tell you they also "own" Mono (from when they bought Xamarin) and that it is part of the .net framework.
Also blazor was originally created by Steve Sanderson as a personal project and then adopted by MS.
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I have exactly the same hesitations.
I also waited two years for Silverlight to stabilize, and jumped in, and wrote four applications that I now have to replace before the end of life for Silverlight.
My understanding is that Blazor is different in that it is actually compliant with a web standard that is being supported in all browsers, including Safari.
So what will happen is that everyone will adopt this new standard and support it up until Microsoft begins to dominate in the space at which point Java fanbois will tell managers to go with Java based solutions because... Java isn't Microsoft and even though every machine in the organization runs on Windows 10, the servers are all Windows, and everyone uses Office and Exchange - we'll adopt some application that uses Oracle (worst GUI ever) and a patchwork of Java frameworks, libraries, and pre-packaged nightmares and string it all together into a big ball of sh*t because if it is elegant and easy then it isn't IT.
At least that is how we do stuff where I work.
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I've been under the impression over the past 4-5 years that Javascript is the new Silverlight. The perception I've always gotten is that their NodeJS investment and efforts are their way of placating the OSS community. What's really lousy is that there is no migration strategy to go from SL into something else.
For those of us that despise Javascript, WebAssembly is our great compiled hope for the future. All the client-side acrobatics JS frameworks have done to bastardize HTML in the browser (looking at you, React framework) can be drastically minimized using...Razor pages. How sweet it is!
WebAssembly is the future - at least it is for me whenever I need to build client-side web app functionality.
Javascript frameworks (especially React) are quickly becoming the Web Services of HTML.
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Though I have never been a fan of ASP.NET MVC, I believe the new Blazor software is a step in the right direction as it is beginning to return to some of the ease-of-use that made WebForms so successful while allowing developers to conform to the C# language on both the client and server sides of the equation.
Like many developers, I have found JavaScript to be a complete headache to work with and the prevalence of the JavaScript Frameworks now available has made web development a nightmare. As a result, I stopped developing my projects for the web when I retired from corporate development in 2014.
As WebForms drifts into obscurity, I don't see Microsoft suddenly dropping the Blazor Platform once it has been released for commercial development. If they did this, the company would have no web development standard to rely on.
That being said, I see Blazor being refined into a more WebForms like environment that will return web development to the same ease-of-use paradigm that made such Microsoft tools so popular...
Steve Naidamast
Sr. Software Engineer
Black Falcon Software, Inc.
blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
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MS can revive Silverlight by reimplementing it in Blazor/Webassembly without use of plugin
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