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Mark_Wallace wrote: because it never changes
That's a joke right? Science always changes. It's the scientific way.
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Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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TheGreatAndPowerfulOz wrote: Science always changes.
That's quite a common misapprehension.
The science does indeed never change.
How much we know of it, however...
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ok, if by "science" you mean "the laws of the universe, physics, chemistry, etc" then yeah, I agree.
But most people understand science as "our current understanding of the universe, etc". Indeed science means "the study of knowledge, or what is knowable" hence, by definition, our grasp of such is always changing.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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TheGreatAndPowerfulOz wrote: our grasp of such is always changing
Your phrasing there confirms that the science doesn't change; only our grasp of it.
Science is the mechanics behind the universe (including the functionality behind the tiny, inconsequential lumps of matter that move around and form opinions on how everything works). Our not knowing or comprehending all of science cannot change the way things work.
It's like not knowing CSS doesn't make it not exist.
Unfortunately.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Look up the definition of science.
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wrong. Science is the study of the mechanics behind the universe. The universe's workings don't change, but our science (i.e., our understanding of the universe) does.
Go read the dictionary.
Science derives from the latin root word "scien" which means "to know".
A scientist is someone who "knows".
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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TheGreatAndPowerfulOz wrote: Science derives from the latin root word "scien" scientia which means "to know".
Indeed.
Not "to theorise" or "to opine"; "to know".
If it ain't a fact, or it ain't true, it ain't science.
TheGreatAndPowerfulOz wrote: A scientist is someone who "knows".
Indeed.
Not "someone who theorises", or "someone who has an opinion"; "someone who knows".
If it ain't a fact, or it ain't true, it's only an opinion or a theory.
Get an education. It beats the crap out of a search engine.
And look up "good manners", whilst you're at it.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Sorry, misremembered from high school latin class. It's been a few years.
So since you agree that science means "to know" or "knowledge" then science is what humans do, not what the universe is. What humans know about the universe constantly changes, hence science constantly changes.
My disagreeing with your beliefs is not ill mannered.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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TheGreatAndPowerfulOz wrote: My disagreeing with your beliefs is not ill mannered.
Sure, just the way it's phrased.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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No offense meant. Sorry if it was ill phrased.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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"It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble. It's what we know that ain't so."
It's a quote from somewhere (I don't remember where I read it.).
I'm thinking of phlogiston, or the aether.
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YaakovF wrote: "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble. It's what we know that ain't so."
Well, just thank Heavens we know that google is our friend!
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Perhaps you're confusing the terms nature and science. Nature, specifically how the natural universe works, never changes, but science, how we perceive and model it, changes constantly including how we use models that might be in disagreement to each other but work within their respective contexts.
Even so, what makes something that doesn't change more important than something that does change?
(Psst, you don't have to answer that; it was just rhetorical.)
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I think you're correct in your assertion. Take Newtonian mechanics as an example: Newton formulated his laws on planetary motion but it took till Einstein to come along and refine them to give a more accurate picture. Even this might not be fully correct and someone in the future comes along and refines them even more. Therefore, the science changes. The fundamental laws do not. Whether we understand the fundamental laws FULLY is a different matter and what science is all about.
modified 6-Sep-22 21:01pm.
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You're confused.
Politics unfortunately rules our lives. The more politics there is the more tyranny and that's the situation most countries find themselves in.
China landing on the moon means NOTHING to the vast majority of humanity.
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Mark_Wallace wrote: science ... because it never changes
Your definition of science doesn't correspond to either my definition or the ones I found on google. Your statement is probably meant to express something closer to 'natural laws do not change over time'.
Google term: define:science
1. "the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment."
The above definition refers to a process carried out by people. As a process that doesn't define the nature of the universe but even that changes over time (for instance how statistics are applied and used have changed over time.)
2. "a particular area of this."
Presumably this definition is not applicable to your usage at all since is used to name a discipline and not what the discipline achieves.
3. "a systematically organized body of knowledge on a particular subject."
This is closest to your usage but it definitely can and has changed over time.
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Herself has discovered - I blame Google - that today is Perihelion, and that we are over 5,000,000km closer to the sun than we were last July. She has also noticed that it is in fact bl**dy freezing round here and that it wasn't last summer. 
Now I know it's that the axis of rotation is not perpendicular to our rotation round the sun and that the tilt of a tiny (13,000km) object affects the temperature more than being 5,000,000km closer to a huge ball of fire, but ... how do I explain that to her? When she is cold, she moves closer to the heat, not leans over a tiny bit! 
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640
Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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The difference between aphelion and perihelion is only about 3.4%
On that basis She should expect to get warmer when she breathes in deeply. (If she's facing the fire her front parts will get about that much closer when she breathes in.) Of course, it would help if she breathed in and out slowly, for six months each.
Phil
The opinions expressed in this post are not necessarily those of the author, especially if you find them impolite, inaccurate or inflammatory.
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Get her to stand in front of the fire and lean back as far as she can. Now ask her whether her head is as warm as her feet. Alternatively, while in the leaning position, walk round a bonfire for a year.
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Ah, yes - my favourite topic!
Happy new arbitrary-period-of-time-close-to-but-not-quite-one-year-from-the-entirely-arbitrary-date-when-this-was-last-celebrated to one and all!
We should really celebrate the tropical year, the sidereal year or the anomalistic year - these can be calculated precisely. Let's face it - so the earth nearly - but not quite - went around the sun once from an entirely arbitrary position, both astronomically and calendrically. The earth actually needs to spin another two quarter days to get to where it was (roughly) since the last leap year.
Sidereal year = 365 d 6 h 9 min 9.76 s
Tropical year = 365 d 5 h 48 min 45 s
Anomalistic year = 365 d 6 h 13 min 52.6 s
As a result of all this arbitrary nonsense, I now celebrate perihelion day. This morning I toasted in the new year with a bacon buttie and a large bloody Mary, at 07:20 local time (GMT +2).
Next year, the UK can join in without getting up at sparrowfart, as perihelion occurs nearly two and a half hours later.
So happy REAL new year to one and all. 
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The buttie sounds good, but that's a little early in the day for me to start drinking vodka. At least, I hope you were referring to the cocktail? What was your wife's name again ... 
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640
Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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OriginalGriff wrote: What was your wife's name again ...
Definitely not Mary - 'though she can be quite contrary at times.  She joined me with a buck's fizz, as today is not a working day. 
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Wouldn't the latest sunrise of the year be the right time to start the new year? According to my calendar, the latest sunrise occurs on January 6, so Happy New Year! 
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As Phil said, the difference between perihelion and aphelion is only ~3.4%, so that isn't the cause of the difference. The difference is due to the fact that the Sun is (a) lower in the sky now than it was in July, and (b) appears for fewer hours in the day. Both these phenomena are due to the Earth's axial tilt.
If the Sun is directly overhead (which can never happen in Wales) on a cloudless, clear day, you will get the maximum possible amount of light & heat. When the Sun reaches a maximum height of ~60 degrees above the horizon, which is what you get in June, then the amount of light and heat is only ~86% of the maximum possible. When the Sun reaches a maximum height of ~15 degrees above the horizon, which is what you get in December, then the amount of light and heat is only ~24% of the maximum possible.
The effect of having Perihelion close to the winter solstice is to slightly moderate the cold of winter in the Northern hemisphere. A similar effect, moderating the heat of summer, occurs at aphelion.
Note that the actual effects of less sun are moderated due to the gulf stream, the winds in the atmosphere, etc. etc.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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