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It depends on whether they bill by the hour.
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
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With salted bills, not peppered ones
In Word you can only store 2 bytes. That is why I use Writer.
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I've been trying for three months to get my new co-workers excited about doing new development in the form of a rewrite of our web app suite (currently ASP.Net with jquery) to ASP.NET MVC5. All I've gotten in return is the equivalent of, "Great! But it will be a lot of work, so lets not".
Yesterday, I mentioned to the PM that I was working on a rewrite at home because we don't have the time/desire to do it at work, and you'd think I was trying to hack the freakin Pentagon.
I'm so tired of government contract work... There is no motivation to excel, and initiative is stomped out before it gains a foothold in peiople's minds.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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Government == misery - on every level known to human kind.
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Government = lack of freedom.
Lack of freedom = misery, bondage, enslavement.
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As if it were any better anywhere else. Manager types are not interested in you writing code poetry. Give them countable reason$ for your proposal or it will stay a fight against windmills. Playing the code ninja and changing things on your own can also quickly be turned against you, just because you obviously play against your bosses and THE TEAM.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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CodeWraith wrote: play against your bosses and THE TEAM.
Even when THE TEAM is just you because of two people and a coordinator the coordinator manges to forget to state his role to the newcomer... for three months, and never coordinated a finger lift in that time and the other team member is a loose cannon who modifies the code written by others in order to make it understandable only by him to keep the absolute control over the project.
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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THE TEAM is a justification for anything. It does not even have to exist.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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THE TEAM is a lie.
Luckily I am now working in a Team, capital T. A refreshing change after 7 years of mostly solo work.
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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den2k88 wrote: THE TEAM is a lie.
Especially when THE TEAM actually is a couple of jerks who happen to sit in the same room and only accidentally open the same project at the same time.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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In my case it was me and a semi-autistic person who worked 10 kms away.
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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I'm not changing things in the actual code base. I'm simply trying to come up with a MVC version of the apps. Nothign special or more ground-breaking than reloacting some of the elements to clean up the 90's era design.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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When we announced that the new version of our product will be fully browser based and will use angular, some asked if they will have back the COBOL UI/UX now?
(We stopped supporting that version like 20 years ago)
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge". Stephen Hawking, 1942- 2018
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The problem is that even best intentions can be made to appear like high treason if it suits some 'sunshine'.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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But look at what he said - you need to show measureable benefit. "We need to use this modern practice because everyone in the 90's was a buffoon" doesn't hold water. Just sounds like someone wanting to play with new toys.
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: I'm so tired of government contract work... There is no motivation to excel, and initiative is stomped out before it gains a foothold in peiople's minds.
I found the same thing to be true for many non-government companies. 
The higher, the fewer.[^] 
Latest Article - Slack-Chatting with you rPi
Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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Years ago I had a friend who worked for a State Government out of college. After some time his boss told him he had too much ambition and should not work in government anymore. His boss played Solitaire all day long. 
However, there are days that I wish I was working a government job and could just take it easy. 
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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My TWO previous private companies were exactly the same.
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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What I find ironic is that while everybody agrees that a redsesign/rewrite would be a good thing, they don't want to commit to it, and eventually, the software becomes so outdated and im[possible to maintain that it goes "EOL", and everybody blames the programmers for not "taking the initiative to do a rewrite (that management refused to allow in the first place.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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Everybody also agrees that World Peace would be a good thing but...
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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world peace isn't practical, but web site modernization is. 
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: but web site modernization is
You don't stroll in Q&A often, don't you? 
GCS d--(d+) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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I would say the opposite.
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1. John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: everybody agrees
2. John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: they don't want to commit to it,
3. John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: software becomes so outdated
4. John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: everybody blames the programmers
When you put those into a list, it sounds like :
A BRAND NEW SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT METHODOLOGY!!!!
All we need now...is a CATCHY NAME!
How about
THe Non-Dev Agreement Cycle!?! Nice acronym too: N-DAC (pronounced in-dack).
Perfect!!!
Everyone (who is important) will love this because it consists of a Software Dev Blame Cycle.
Write it up and get rich.
All you need now is a self-important book on the topic. 
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This is why you keep every business email.
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