|
Marc Clifton wrote: Why wasn't he fired? Though, that was the question I asked myself every day at these previous jobs. The answer to one was old school corporate mentality, the other was basically "drinking buddies on the CEO's boat and neighbor of the CEO's brother."
Exactly. I've been in a couple of situations where a complete idiot could not get fired 'cuz they had buddies in the stratosphere. It didn't matter how badly they screwed up.
Like in Wargames, the only way to win is to not play the game. Ya move on to a better place.
|
|
|
|
|
I had my share of stress too, but I think it is almost unavoidable in our line of business. When things get complicated, which they always do in IT, people get stressed and that brings out the worst in some people. But what I personally found much worse than stress is being unemployed, which I experienced several times. 
|
|
|
|
|
RickZeeland wrote: When things get complicated, which they always do in IT, people get stressed and that brings out the worst in some people.
I'm working in IT because the work in itself is relatively stress-free 
You have complete control of the environment (admin on your PC), there's a VCS with a history of changes, and each change is small and testable.
Stress is sometimes introduced on purpose; makes the crowd more active, more alive. And it is as easy as promising early delivery. I do not feel the need to keep someone else's promise.
If there is stress, the first thing I'll do is go outside for a relaxing smoke. People who are pumping adrenaline are not the greatest thinkers. Step back, relax, and fix it.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
|
|
|
|
|
Quote: I'm working in IT because the work in itself is relatively stress-free
I think you watched too many episodes of "Utopia" 
|
|
|
|
|
RickZeeland wrote: I think you watched too many episodes of "Utopia"
No, seriously.
That doesn't mean that I did not have my share of PBH's who assumed it would help to motivate me by applying deadlines and guaranteed deliverables; but I did have some fun annoying them before moving on.
Go stress your surgeon if you think it helps and let me do the work I studied and am paid for 
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
|
|
|
|
|
Eddy Vluggen wrote: You have complete control of the environment (admin on your PC),
Not always...  
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
|
|
|
|
|
Localadmin is preferred for development. Without it, expect some unexpected delays
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
|
|
|
|
|
Eddy Vluggen wrote: Without it, expect some unexpected delays
Like 3 Weeks to be able to install VS2017 Pro?
Luckily enough, a bug in the installations package from the domain forced them to give me local admin level
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
|
|
|
|
|
In my case I flooded the help desk with (genuine) tickets for installs, and blamed delays on their backlog. I got LocalAdmin.
|
|
|
|
|
The only job I've ever had like that was my first programming job. I started part-time while I was in college, and then full-time for two years after graduation. In hindsight, the boss confused me with one of his kids. He constantly looked over my shoulder, questioned my decisions, and so on. Some of this is appropriate for a wet-behind-the-ears intern, but I think it could have been handled better [war stories omitted].
Two things forever removed me from becoming too emotionally wrapped-up in my job: becoming a parent and a runner. If you are paying attention at all, being a parent realigns your priorities and you recognize that your job is no longer a holy calling, but just what you do to pay the bills. For me, becoming a runner helped me realize that being a computer geek was not the whole of my being. There were other things I could be that gave me a sense of accomplishment and purpose, that had nothing to do with my education or how I earned my living.
I still get excited when things go well at work, and pissed when they go sideways, but those feelings aren't all-encompassing.
Software Zen: delete this;
|
|
|
|
|
Previous boss would stroll in at 9:30/10ish, fall asleep in his office and leave around 3. My normal day was get in around 6:30/7ish, leave around 4:30/5ish. He came over to my desk one day at lunch and "caught" me slacking off reading the news. Treated me like garbage from that point on no matter how good of a job I did, how much money I saved the company, etc.
Years have passed and I haven't had any contact with him and I still get this guilty feeling in the pit of my stomach when I leave at noon on a Friday after I've already put in 45-50 hours for the week.
Current job is tanking the confidence I have in my own decision making abilities because everything has to go up the chain, even some of the simplest stuff like "Can I take a day to go to a vendor conference that I was invited to speak at? No cost to the company and free publicity in our industry." takes two weeks as it goes through 3-4 levels to get a decision.
|
|
|
|
|
RJOberg wrote: Can I take a day to go to a vendor conference that I was invited to speak at? No cost to the company and free publicity in our industry
I can understand why that needs high level approval, there is substantial reputational risk to the organisation involved in public presentations. You may be confident and capable in your subject matter but management actually needs to look at a wider picture. So it is not your decision making capability that is in question (after all you have already made that recommendation to management)
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity -
RAH
I'm old. I know stuff - JSOP
|
|
|
|
|
That's all true and I agree with all of it but that example was probably the highest profile occurrence. In normal instances it can be something as simple as sending an email to another department and running it past two levels of management.
In the example, I think the part that really got me was the person who finally approved my request did so by stating, "Of course he can go! No he doesn't need to take time off, we'll pay for his time, why are you even bothering me with this question?"
Honestly, the level of red tape is one root problem and not trusting their employees is another.
|
|
|
|
|
Just ask for time off. Why do you need to give a reason/destination?
Only use your personal contact information with a generic "industry" resume that omits your current employer.
If they don't want the publicity, don't give it to them.
If they do want the publicity, it should not count against your vacation.
|
|
|
|
|
First, congrats on finding a place you're happy!
And no, its not just you. I think anyone who lasts long enough in this industry eventually encounters one of those jobs. My advice, when its good cherish it! That's a rare thing nowadays. When it gets bad enough to negatively impact your life, flee immediately!
The tricky part is recognizing when its bad enough. Often, you get a honeymoon period with a new job. Other times, you start with great management, but they leave...only to be replaced by terrible management.
In either case, inertia usually casts you in role of the "frog" in that Boiling frog[^] metaphor
Despite being around the block more than a few times, I've never quite learned how to avoid that. At best, I've reduced the lag time between its onset and my departure to about a year.
|
|
|
|
|
I worked at a place like that for a while. The projects I worked on were great - really a lot of fun. I liked my co-workers too. However, the management kept getting worse and worse until eventually it was horrendous. We ended up with a GM who thought self-reviews were a good idea.  This was in a fairly small community where most people in the industry knew each other so word started getting around about how bad things were. About 2008 or so, when the economy was really bad, we actually had a fair amount of work and needed to hire more people. We had personnel requisitions open for months and months because no one wanted to work there, even with job openings being very scarce. The head office sent a squad from HR there to interview people and find out what the problems were twice. Of course, they did nothing with their information so the issues persisted. I was actually grateful when I was laid off from there. A little more than a year later the entire division was closed and I don't think anyone was surprised.
Today I work for a company who could have been a customer of theirs in the past and whenever we put out an RFP I make sure my former employer does not receive one because they have changed so much I would never, ever even remotely consider them as a vendor. For those of you who know me IRL I will be happy to explain why. 
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
|
|
|
|
|
I've generally kept myself in a position where I can turn around, phart in an upbeat tone, and leave. I can almost here them saying "Oh, ![Elephant | [mastadon]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/elephant.gif) - now what?"
Part of this is a financially conservative life style - except when newly out of school, I don't spend to please others (clothing, cars, etc.). Big saving cushion. Now, I can retire whenever I want - literally working for the entertainment value.
Hindsight reminds me that, even though I make less than most - I've had a damn good setup in terms of not letting my employers lord it over me and cause horrid stress. Nonetheless, if I were born rich, it would have made things that much easier.
Refactoring is due in keeping myself busy when I pull that retirement trigger. Now that's intimidating.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
|
|
|
|
|
Marc Clifton wrote: Perhaps it's just me, being overly sensitive
225 articles on CodeProject. I think you may have already have some experience with harsh criticism, and don't think you would have written that much if you'd be overly sensitive.
You can't work under fear; stress will slowly eat you.
Marc Clifton wrote: stress if I take longer than 30 minutes for lunch, etc.
You're not more productive by making sure that you spend as much time as possible behind the keyboard. Sometimes it helps to take a walk around the building in the rain to get a new perspective on a problem.
Pretty sure that a lot of companies would like to have a legend and master among them
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
|
|
|
|
|
Yes, I can totally relate.
The interesting part is that I'm working less now, having more fun at work.
And still I get a lot more done.
|
|
|
|
|
I can relate this this and it is possible to recover from these sorts of experiences.
I don't necessarily think that you are over-sensitive - I just think that life has a habit of sometimes putting things in our way that can harm us and spending 8 hours a day working with others is pretty much a guarantee that you are going to work with someone who may want to cause you harm or at least not care if they cause you harm.
What I found really helped me was CBT - in its most basic form it's a distraction technique and really helped me to deal with the habit of dwelling on bad work experiences from the past(it's not a magic cure but it's the best thing I have found so far to help with depression), in its more advanced form it's a tool for putting yourself in uncomfortable situations and changing your response to them.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
|
|
|
|
|
Had to look up CBT as I had originally assumed it was related to CBD. Hey, the context was there! Whatever helps to relieve the stress I guess!
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
|
|
|
|
|
Not claiming it's as bad as working for psychos, but working for people who totally ignore your work and its contribution to the business and ignore your advice (when they even bother to ask for it) can be as demoralising in the long-term.
They complain that our web site isn't as 'wizzy' as the latest wiz apps online totally ignoring that it was built on Java Faces back when that was considered - by some (mainly @Oracle) to be all-singing-all-dancing, and purchased from a third party vendor.
And we don't have access to any Java development software or a Java compiler.
I try to contribute, I really do, but I'm losing the will to live..... 
|
|
|
|
|
yes.
Work is another form of relationship. There have been a number of realisation for myself when watching some drama about "why does she/he not just leave she/he if they are so unhappy?" and think, wow my job is like that, why do I keep going in? And some similarities when long term couples see the surface level of another couple (job opportunity) and think wow, that looks like a great couple. Why are we not like that.
I will leave article which I found a few helpful points How to Slow Down to Go Faster Than Ever in Software Development
|
|
|
|
|
One caveat; just like any drug, some people just crave the adrenaline rush that goes with high-pressure work. (I lump the abusive bosses/constant pressure in the same category). Not sure I'm expressing what I'm thinking properly.
I'm not saying that's a good or healthy thing. I'm just saying some people get almost addicted to the stress.
I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment, Marc. It's amazing what can be accomplished when an organization hires smart people and empowers them to do good things as an alternative philosophy.
In short, for less-experienced people: bad situations are not worth it. If you're in a situation where you hate getting out of bed in the morning, start looking.
|
|
|
|
|
Job related stress can produce serious effects, and recovery can take years. You are far from alone in this.
|
|
|
|
|
General 
News 
Suggestion 
Question 
Bug 
Answer 
Joke 
Praise 
Rant 
Admin 
Submit an article or tip
