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Simon P Stevens wrote: ...how do they expect people to know what to cover if they can't keep the material up to date with the exams.
That approach right there is exactly why those certifications are not worth the paper they are printed on. You are supposed to already know the material. Studying books/online sites for hours/days/weeks ahead of time is the same as having no experience with the subject matter.
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles
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The certifications are a revenue stream for Microsoft. In the real world, things I do often I know backwards and forwards and things I've done once, I remember roughly what can be done and where to find the details
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The problem with certs for specific technologies (or versions of said technologies) is the rapid deprication if those technologies. It's IMPOSSIBLE to keep up.
Furthermore, having a cert don't mean sh*t. Anybody can pass a cert test, but only EXPERIENCE builds your skill set. If you're lucky, the latest and greatest dev tech will be easy to migrate to (going from MVC4 to MVC5). However, going from dekstop dev to web dev requires a pretty major re-think of how things happen in the target environment, and at that point, you have to have highly developed forensic, debugging, and tool skills to succede. Hopefully, you'll be using a language you're familiar with, but true skill and insite as a programmer is the only way you'll survive in that environment.
Don't bother telling me about your certifications. Show me how your code.
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One of the devs on my team came in this morning describing the CSSLP class they're taking (contractors - me - aren't allowed to take the same class), and he said the instructor told them that the test writers and study guide writes only meet every few years. YEARS!? The company's study materials cost an arm and a leg, and they're YEARS behind the current tests. How can they sell this kinda crap to the government?! Even better - why is the government accepting this situation with no push-back!?
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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I totally agree, the certs are worthless as an indicator of ability. We are only doing them as they are a requirement for MS partnership, which is pretty annoying really.
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David Crow wrote: Studying books/online sites for hours/days/weeks ahead of time is the same as having no experience with the subject matter.
Unfortunately, that's the basis of the entire education system in the entire world.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Last year I did it the easiest way, but that's not really a good idea. I booked the exam, looked at some questions online, found them boring and then took the exam the next day. The Boss paid, I passed and everything is well. 
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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You can check out websites such as Udemy and PluralSight.
They often have pretty up-to-date videos about the latest exams.
I'm not sure about 70-486, but I recently got AZ-203 and at least studied for AZ-100 and AZ-101 (both will be replaced with AZ-103  ) using Udemy.
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Don't know.
The courses I have are legit.
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Thanks, but it's only the original 2013 edition they've got (The one with MVC 4 in the title). The 2016 edition is out of stock too.
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I don't know much about these exams and how they are handled and processed, but the lack of books indicates a few things to me:
1. All study materials are being moved online only?
2. Lack of interest in these certification courses?
3. Possibly due to #2, MS is phasing this out?
I find it really hard to believe that up to date study materials would not be available worldwide for something that was still active and sought after, such as certifications, etc.
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Yeah, that was my thought. They are probably being deprecated.
But unfortunately it's still a requirement for gold partnership status, so we've got to do them.
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Simon P Stevens wrote: if they can't keep the material up to date with the exams.
But the material you are looking for is book, right? And Microsoft often does not publish books, it's third parties that do that. But the Microsoft site and then experience has all the information you need.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Exactly - When I did Windows and .NET 4 Developer Certifications a few years ago - I took a preparation course from a 3rd party and they provided books and labs. But I never thought that the exams would be that hard… Reading and working through 1000 books won't help much, you really need practical experience as a professional developer because the "Questions" are kind of complex Scenarios you have to suggest solutions. Though I don't know if it's the same with other certifications, anyone who says these certifications are not worth the paper has no clue! All other certified developers I ever met were really good - and drop rate was 60% when I managed to make it (the course and the exams cost 12k Euro if you pass or not....)
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Taking a different tack, perhaps someone, somewhere, is trying to tell you something . . .
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I'm sure they are, but I can't work out what it is?
We are already a software house that uses C#.net, SQL & Azure. We use MVC for an API, but not the view side of things, and we don't use .net core yet. The people are also a mix, so for example, the people who know Azure best are typically different people to those who know C# and SQL best. I consider myself a pretty experience developer, I've worked with a wide range of tech, almost all around the Microsoft ecosystem, so I should be an ideal candidate for these certs, but I have a few gaps in the specifics and I would like to have a way to add to my knowledge and fill those gaps without just randomly hunting around through MSDN docs.
So is the thing they are trying to tell me that we aren't eligible for partnership status because we don't use one specific piece of technology that they have on the certification path? Or because our people have a mix of skills rather than each person having the full stack? That would be a bit frustrating.
Or is the thing they are trying to tell me that the exams are being deprecated soon hence they aren't bothering to keep the material up to date? In which case, it would be nice if they removed them from requirement for partnership.
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Simon P Stevens wrote: Or is the thing they are trying to tell me that the exams are being deprecated soon hence
Consider the face-in-their-phone crowd coming in behind you - they're heavily adapted to not learning since they can 'look it up on their phone' - so, no sense alienating them.
As for certs - you are probably aware that a substantial number of professional programmers never to a computer science course in college - have a degree (if any) in something else.
Depending upon the type of coding, the real value added could just be a combination of experience and innate talent. The exams will show the possibility that a person has, at the least, been exposed to the material - but do you want, say, a carpenter who's read all the books on carpentry and woodworking to work on your house? "Ooops" is, alas, an important and necessary teacher.
Meanwhile - those with the money that hire us often have their notion as to importance based upon articles they read about "The Latest and the Greatest".
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Just send me $39.95 and I'll designate you a MS. Certified
The best way to improve Windows is run it on a Mac.
The best way to bring a Mac to its knees is to run Windows on it.
~ my brother Jeff
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Great. Does that count towards the MS partnership too
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... but JIRA is such a stinking pile of sh*t!
Latest Article - A 4-Stack rPI Cluster with WiFi-Ethernet Bridging
Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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Must be how it was implemented. We use it with minimal issues.
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MarkTJohnson wrote: Must be how it was implemented. We use it with minimal issues.
Some of it is the user experience, for example, how the styling toolbar scrolls up, up, and away when writing a comment on a ticket.
Other things are how unintuitive (though some may disagree) it is to do things. I spent 30 minutes googling and looking for how to create an epic. You can't just create an epic in the "assign epic" dialog. Oh look, it's really stupidly simple -- go to the Roadmap and just add it there. Wow, that's intuitive.
I often work on things outside of the sprint -- I want to see all the things on my board, not just the damn sprint.
I'd like to review tickets I've completed so I can revisit my notes for similar issues. Seems like an impossible task. I keep separate notes. 
And why can't I assign a ticket to two or more people? I get the idea that the issue should be specific enough for the person, but seriously, don't force me into the JIRA way of thinking -- there are times I want a general issue to start with, assigned to the people that are going to be involved, and maybe if they need further guidance, I'll break it out into specific issues for each person.
The list goes on...
[edit] I want a status that is more flexible, like "waiting for customer to reply". Possibly configurable, but I can't find it in the settings. They could make it easier with a right-click or gear icon[/edit]
Latest Article - A 4-Stack rPI Cluster with WiFi-Ethernet Bridging
Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
modified 16-Apr-19 15:11pm.
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Okay if I needed to do all those things I probably would become just as frustrated.
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Marc Clifton wrote: why can't I assign a ticket to two or more people?
Maybe you should do what my employer does - eliminate staff and reassign their responsibilities to the survivors until only one person applies to any given issue. 
Software Zen: delete this;
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