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That's why my system is a fully integrated, monolithic system. No mixing and matching of bits and pieces that may or may not fit well together. It's all of a piece. No STL/standard library stuff because that's just another piece that you can't make fit into anything that it doesn't already understand.
GitHub - DeanRoddey/CIDLib: The CIDLib general purpose C++ development environment[^]
Though, that also means you don't add it to your code, you build stuff on top of it.
Explorans limites defectum
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A good principle is to make sure you always know well what is going on at the first abstaction level below the one you are working at. Obviously, you do not write your own sine function because you do not trust a standard library.
We may have different opinions on how detailed your understanding should be - e.g. if you use a compression library, do you need to know the details of the compression algorithm? As long as it doesn't affect my code how it does it, it can be treated as a well defined black box, and I know quite well the principal idea of various types of compression (lossless, lossy of various application specific variants, ...), that is sufficient for me. But I am not satisfied with functions of the kind SolveTheProblemForMe() when I don't have a clue about how the problem is solved.
Your reply may be read as a rejection of all sorts of standard libraries - and if that is your intention, I hope it is ironic  . If you understand what a library function will do for you, accept it. If you know how it could be done, you can solve yourself a lot of coding work. But picking up some library or open source code because you don't understand how to solve your own problem, but will leave it to someone else to handle it, then you are on the wrong track.
Unfortunately, you too often see people picking up free solutions because they don't understand their own problem.
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I'm not sure I understand the point you are making. But my general reply is that it has nothing to do with understanding or saving work. My system is the way it is because it's about tight integration. Unless you've really worked in a system like that, and almost no one has in the C++ world, you can't really appreciate what it does for you.
If you want a truly integrated system, you can't just use random libraries. I can't make such a library use my logging system, my exceptions, my statistics system, my threading system, etc... Those are things that just wrapping some black box of code won't deal with.
And of course if something goes wrong in the field, these things are NOT black boxes to me. So I just don't have the sorts of issues that are so common when you use a bunch of black boxes. Where you have to upgrade one to fix some problem and realize that has created five more. Or something goes wrong in the field and it's very difficult to figure out why. If something goes wrong in my version, it can log something to my logging system, which can also log to a centralized log server among other things.
If all you want to do is get something working, then of course you can do it with a bunch of pieces and parts. But that's not what I'm trying to do.
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Dean Roddey wrote: I'm not sure I understand the point you are making.
My point was that in some cases you have to trust the code of others - that be trig functions, drivers or whatever. A few years ago, our main products were 8051 based; we wrote the monitor ("OS") ourselves, but even then we had to trust the drivers supplied by developers of peripherals. Today we are on more modern hardware, but the increased complexity means we become more and more dependent on software developed by others.
We are not using "just random libraries". We are using libraries, drivers etc. from subcontractors where we are familiar with the QA procedurs. We know exactly what the functions are supposed to do. We do have access to the source code for inspection (partially under NDA contracts). When done that way, I can defend using code developed and maintained by others.
That was the point I was making. For anything but trivial systems, you will have to trust code obtained from others, to some degree. We are in the process of introducing an alternative to our proprietary "OS", based on an open-source embedded OS - but that is one where we actively take part in the further development of it, in close contact with other stakeholders.
"Tight integration", in a technical sense, I see as a quite trivial matter. In the embedded world, you always deliver to the customer a complete, self-contained code image. In the IoT world, there is very little of dynamic linking and over-the-network retrieval of missing modules.
My IT childhood is so long ago that e.g. Python's quiet downloading of dependencies you are not aware of, downloading some arbitrary version that could have been a different one yesterday, and may be a diffent one tomorrow ... that gives me shivers. In our company, this is relevant for test tools only, not for delivered software, and we do have tools to handle it reasonably well. It does cause problems every now and then, when developers go behind the tools to retrieve "the latest and greatest" version, but for the main production line, we control it.
Again, my point is know who you want to trust. If you know that you can trust them, fine. Use the code, even if it isn't written by you. If you pick up some code from wherever, just because you think it solves a problem that you don't know how to ... You asked for it, you got it. Or if you like: you may be in deep sh*t.
Even if you obtained the source code and "integrated" it into your system - that is not the point of it. Any code you integrate is your responsibility, whether you understand it or not.
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Obviously I'm not going to write an operating system or anything. There's no practical recourse but to use the OS APIs. I'm not terribly concerned that they are going to be flakey, since we only use the lowest level OS APIs we can, and those are very widely banged on. And they mostly are just APIs, i.e. single calls to do one thing. That's something you can wrap cleanly.
What's important is that all of the code on my side of the line be very tightly integrated to the extent that's possible. That means it's all written in terms of my interfaces, participates in my standard system functionality as appropriate, etc... So there's never any 'impedance mismatch' between parts of the code, you never have to translate from this scheme to that scheme, you never have to use inconsistent styles or mechanisms to interact with any of the code, because it is all of a piece.
Explorans limites defectum
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And if by some decision, Google closes Google Drive and Google Photos, makes our files inaccessible; we can do nothing but suck our thumb. It's free service, we have nothing to sue them. So, cry in the corner, instead.
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... it just tickled me.[^]
Little things, little minds, I guess. 
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640
Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Obligatory juvenile YouTube link: Aerosmith[^]
Software Zen: delete this;
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Is a fixed income what a cheating bookie lives on?
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640
Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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I regularly engage in sword fights for money - you could say that I have a duel income.
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. - Mark Twain
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PeejayAdams wrote: I regularly engage in sword fights for money - you could say that I have a duel income.
I know something you do not know. I am not left handed. 
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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I am not left handed either.
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640
Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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You might want to be careful about income splitting.
Socialism is the Axe Body Spray of political ideologies: It never does what it claims to do, but people too young to know better keep buying it anyway. (Glenn Reynolds)
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Does a cheetah steal your bananas?
"If we don't change direction, we'll end up where we're going"
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OriginalGriff wrote: Is a fixed income what a cheating bookie lives on?
income depends on the punters,
"fixed" outcome - that's where the prophet profit answers the requests
Message Signature
(Click to edit ->)
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It may change the subject, but this could be of interest:
It seems like a broker would be employed to cause someone to lose all their money?
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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It's a turf question, but I bet his accountant pays his wagers.
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I thought it was an income that can't have baby incomes...
Socialism is the Axe Body Spray of political ideologies: It never does what it claims to do, but people too young to know better keep buying it anyway. (Glenn Reynolds)
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"Hey!
I know your pass is: f1shface
I infected you with my private malware, (RAT) / (Remote Administration Tool), a few months back when you visited some website where my iframe was placed and since then, I have been observing your actions.
The malware gave me full access and control over your system, meaning, I can see everything on your screen, turn on your camera or microphone and you won't even notice about it.
I have also access to all your contacts, private pictures, videos, everything!
I MADE A VIDEO showing you (through your webcam) STATISFYING YOURSELF!
You got a very good taste! Hahaha...
I can send this video to all your contacts (email, social network) and publish all your private data everywhere!
Only you can prevent me from doing this!
To stop me, transfer exactly 1600$ with the current bitcoin (BTC) price to my bitcoin address."
Interestingly that was a password from a very long time ago, like 10+years, that I have used on fairly junk sites, like linked in, etc.
So it seems as if the rumours of the hack are right.
But anyway, I cant wait to see your reaction to seeing my vid!  (Be kind, I am not as young as I once was.  )
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Wait, you pleased yourself while browsing linkedin?
modified 20-Oct-19 21:02pm.
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Dont you? It is soooo erotic! 
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I would send back a link to this thread
modified 20-Oct-19 21:02pm.
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Unfortunately it is just a bitcoin link else I would have told him what I think of him already!
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There are some very beautiful ladies on LinkedIn, and I guess it appeals to the workplace fantasy... 
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