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kmoorevs wrote: the only project specs I've ever gotten were handwritten on scratch paper or bar napkins
You guys are getting specs? 
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In classic waterfall (the thing before agile/nonplanning/adhoc) writing specs is the devs' work. From that, a basic design is formed, and from that, a technical design. AFAIK, agile skips that and goes directly to implementation.
Makes estimating so much harder; it's like guessing at what date you finish the book filled with sudoku-puzzles, and putting a price tag on it. That sounds a lot like gambling 
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: writing specs is the devs' work
That should NEVER be the devs work! 
Especially in a waterfall environment, a business analyst (or more) should talk to users, stakeholders, etc. and only when it's finished hand it over to development.
In fact, if a developer strays from the written specs a tester should make note of it and either the software should be fixed or the specs should be changed accordingly by the analyst.
A developer is probably the least suitable person to write specs.
Agile doesn't skip it, it just doesn't plan too far ahead.
It's more like, let's write the specs for this particular feature.
Which features are getting specced or built next is up to the product owner who decides on priority (also with input from users and/or stakeholders).
The specs are then made into stories (or perhaps the stories make up the specs) which are estimated by the developers.
If any story isn't fully clear it goes back to the product owner who can then try to clear things up, probably by talking to the users.
In agile, you also don't estimate time, but complexity, in terms of story points.
The story should be done by the end of the sprint (usually two weeks) and every sprint can have x story points.
Estimating anything else than complexity of user stories isn't agile, it's a team trying to do agile in an otherwise waterfall company.
At least that's what I understood.
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That's a lot of explanation in one post.
Thank you 
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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That can work for small companies or small products or products that are your own.
When working for bigger companies and with demanding customers you can't get away with that unless you can clone yourself and work five weeks in a week 
I've been there too and it has its merits 
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Is reading between the lines a good idea unless there is a train coming?
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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or as the song says "...there's light at the end of the tunnel, lord I hope it ain't no train!"
They call me different but the truth is they're all the same!
JaxCoder.com
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If you see a train coming, is it better to make tracks, or unmake them?
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
modified 11-Nov-19 11:16am.
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Unless you have some sort of loco motive to risk injury, it just depends upon how you conduct yourself.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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You have a one track mind.
/ravi
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Interesting train of thought, but of course you are known for your excellent track record in thoughts.
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So, where you are the trains actually come?
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112 - Ah - The element of surprise
Ok I've got so much to do today but decided to take a break...I'll give it back now!
They call me different but the truth is they're all the same!
JaxCoder.com
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/ravi
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I didn't see that coming! 
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Now that caught me by surprise 
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that web browsing on the iPad has become complete crap since the latest update came out a week or so ago?
I can on,y browse to a couple of websites - ALL of the others I try to go to refuse to render. This is in both Safari (which absolutely sucks balls), and FireFox.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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Nah. I don't like using systems that are locked in to a single hardware and software supplier ... 
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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I started my carer on an Apple computer and quickly realized that it would be too restrictive and switched to the PC.
They call me different but the truth is they're all the same!
JaxCoder.com
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My 3 iPads are all hand-me-downs from the wife and are too old to get updates. I only use them as music players and occasionally testing web apps. Most of the time, months go by before I need to use one of them so they are usually dead. I really dislike iAnything. 
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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kmoorevs wrote: My 3 iPads are all hand-me-downs from the wife and are too old to get updates.
I learned the same applies to their laptops. As I refuse to give Apple any money, I bought a second-hand MacBook Pro a few years ago (as I wanted to learn how to get around MacOS, even though I'm still otherwise no fan), and I got maybe 3 years worth of OS updates out of it before I started getting prevented from downloading anything new.
It's their hardware, and I can only use their software on it, and if I want to stay on the latest to avoid vulnerabilities that no longer get patched, I'm supposed to what, stop using it buy something newer? I could still install Windows 10 on much older hardware if I wanted to.
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You're probably just browsing it wrong.
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